4501

RE: Ros’s death.

There are too many characters whose needs for screen time aren’t given the attention they desire, so Ros’s introduction, and continued presence in gratuitous porn scenes was exasperating. Her death at least helps underscore how nasty Littlefinger is, in case anyone needed reminding. It also shows that Joffrey has finally made the transition from a little shit to true psychopath. So at least a little mileage was made out of her character.

RE: Bran and Rickon

Bran’s POV has really suffered this year in the HBO series. Something had to give somewhere. Will the fans who are only familiar with the HBO series understand how important he is given how little screen time, he is given?

I also don’t know what to make of Rickon’s continued presence in Bran’s storyline. Some folks have been very critical of disparities between the books and the HBO series, but having Rickon present at all seems to be a huge change compared to some of the other additions/omission.

A part of me wonders if Rickon’s purpose in the plot was changed since AGoT was written. He potentially represents a huge as of yet untouched plot line, and GRRM can’t really have time to add something like that if he really wants to wrap things up in the next two books. On the other hand, if something substantial doesn’t happen with Rickon - why have him at all, and why have Maester Luwin insist on separating them?

That is, does Maester Luwin’s instructions to Osha in the HBO series now reflect a portion of GRRM’s hindsight and represent an effort to cut down on the number of plotlines?

4502

The show has to be more efficient with time and characters. I have to assume that they’ve made these decisions with full knowledge of what is to come - and what really matters.

That’s the hope at least.

4503

Ramsay isn’t a Karstark, I thought that scene made it fairly clear that he’s just fucking with Theon.

I quite liked the Jon and Ygritte stuff, but they really needed to have more of that before the cave scene. The cave is meant to be the apex of their relationship, not the start of it.

I enjoyed QoT and Tywin. I enjoyed most of the episode. Even though it’s probably the most divergence from the books they have ever put into one episode.

I suppose Gendry is now going to become Edric Storm, basically.

Looking forward to next week, Jamie rescuing Brienne should be good.

4504

It’s retarded that Melisandre knows that Gendry is Robert’s son, when no one else in the books does. At least no one alive. Though I haven’t read the latest book.

4505

I enjoyed the episode a lot.

Ramsay was obviously screwing with Theon. He’s a liar and a psychopath.

Rickon is still in the show because I don’t think they really know how to get rid of him but keep Osha with the group. It’s obvious the showrunners like her a lot.

Queen of Thorns versus Tywin was terrific, as was Varys and Littlefinger. Any scene in which people just face off with their wits in this show is a plus.

I’m actually going to miss Ros. I didn’t care for her character in the first season, but I thought her growth into one of Varys’ sources was cool.

4506

Ramsey is just fucking with Theon for the joy of it… but I’m not sure what (outside of torture-porn) we were supposed to get out of that scene. OK, Theon is being semi-punished for his crimes, and yes, Ramsey is a psychopath – can we now submerge these characters for a couple seasons and spend more screen-time on stuff that won’t make my wife nauseous?

The Gendry stuff with the Red Woman is interesting. I liked the exchanges with Thoros, who was pretty under-utilized in the books, I thought. Whether this screws with the plot as laid out by the books is kind of up in the air, right? Gendry disappears from the narrative at the end of Book 3 and we haven’t seen him since… if GRRM had any use for him outside of the Arya plot in the first few books, we don’t have a hint of it.

Any Tyrion or Tywin stuff was fantastic, as always, though I thought that the scene with Cersai was a little redundant. At least we know that it was Joffrey who was after Tyrion’s head… seems like that revelation came a little earlier in the story here than in the books, but I may be misremembering.

Climbing the Wall was just about as I remember it being from the books, minus the scene where the other warg tries to kill them. In the books it was made to seem like the ice-fall was a semi-intentional thing that happened because the Wall wanted to defend itself… pity they couldn’t have made that point in the show, as I always thought that was a cool concept.

Brianne in a pink dress was riotous. I liked the dinner party scene overall with the subtexts of cutlery and slicing off slivers of rewards.

The ending scene with Littlefinger and Joffrey and Ros was unexpected. Had we seen Littlefinger be so directly responsible for anyone’s death in the show as that yet?

Not the strongest episode in the season so far, but still good.

4507

It was obvious this episde that Theon’s tormentor is Ramsey, hell there was a flayed man banner hanging right behind him the entire time he was playing his little game with Theon, which is why I didn’t understand why Theon was guessing all the other families when the banner was right there. I assume Ramsey’s true identity will be revealed soon, and Theon still has an important role to play so we’ll need to revisit him from time to time, but yeah, I can do without the torture porn making my wife not want to watch with me.

Ros fit perfectly into the show. She served the purposes of several book characters all rolled inot one, and nicely illustrated the nature of both Littlefinger and Joffrey. I thought she was one HBO addition/change that was really well done.

I’m not as sold on the Gendry situation. I understand that introducing yet another bastard, and then having Melissandre trapse over to Storm’s End and birth another smoke assassin to capture that boy would have needlessly confused the TV viewers. On the other hand, Gendry’s role in the books was undefined. Sure, it seemed like we left him with the Brotherhood, but what would have happened later? Would Arya have gone looking for them once she returns to Westeros (if she ever does?). I will not be happy if Gendry suffers Edric’s fate in his stead.

This was a rather pedestrian episode that is setting the stage for things to come. Poor Sansa, so close to her ultimate goal…yet even that would have ended up as a cruel joke. Could they have made Loras anymore obviously gay? It’s almost an insulting stereotype, listening to him talk about how he’s always dreamed of his wedding day and having him describe her dress for her. Really HBO? WE GET IT.

Still loving the show though. My wife (non-reader) seems to be right where she needs to be. She told me last night the only characters she really cares about are Tyrion and Daenerys, which is pretty much how you’re supposed to feel at this point in the story. I guess you should feel for Jon as well, but the TV show is making him out to be a much less sympathetic character than he was in the books at this point. Hopefully that will change.

4508

Heh, I remember thinking that same thing last night.

4509

Agreed. As a non-reader of the books it was obvious to me from the beginning she was a utility character, a contrivance to get certain kinds of information to the audience with fewer “as you know bob” conversations.

Poor Sansa, so close to her ultimate goal…yet even that would have ended up as a cruel joke. Could they have made Loras anymore obviously gay? It’s almost an insulting stereotype, listening to him talk about how he’s always dreamed of his wedding day and having him describe her dress for her. Really HBO? WE GET IT.

I think this misses the point a bit. The show has explicitly told us Loras is gay, so they don’t need to hint at it (subtley or blatantly) in the scene with Sansa for the sake of the audience. Instead to me it was a was a way of underlining that while Sansa has certainly matured somewhat since season one, she’s still in way over her head and not particularly sharp or politically aware. She’s somehow managed to miss the gossip that everyone else seems to know about him, and now she’s missing obvious clues when she interacts with him directly.

She represents one end of the spectrum of Westeros high class womanhood, young, pretty, still (largely) clueless (though kudos for her to be canny enough to have thus far avoided getting her head chopped off by Joffrey), and basically a playing piece , the other end held down by Diana Rigg’s character who is old, useless in the womanly sense of her culture (her beauty cannot attract a mate and she can’t make anyone an advantageous baby), but who is terrifyingly and hilariously politically astute and plays the game as well as anyone without direct control of an army in this culture can. I would love if somehow she could have a series of scenes with Sansa almost in the vein of the Tywin/Arya scenes from last season, where she maybe smartens Sansa the fuck up.

Still loving the show though. My wife (non-reader) seems to be right where she needs to be. She told me last night the only characters she really cares about are Tyrion and Daenerys, which is pretty much how you’re supposed to feel at this point in the story.

(Again, non-reader) I care about Tyrion, Tywin (he’s a super bastard but Charles Dance is just so so good) Fatty Night Watch guy, Diana Rigg, the Eunuch spy guy, Arya, and Brienne (and Brienne/Jaime, who make a fun pairing).

My hate list is Joffrey, Joffrey again, Still Joffrey, Red Witch chick, and Littlefinger.

Don’t care:

Her kickass scene with the slavemaster aside, I really don’t care about Dany, she’s just someone else who wants to be king and I’m sick of people who want to be king in this society/show. I don’t care about Theon, who at this point is the only stuff I fast forward through. I’m watching Robb’s stuff mostly because I really like Clive Russell and Tobias Menzies, I’m watching Jon Snow’s stuff because Rose Leslie is really pretty, I’m watching Bran’s stuff because though she’s unconventional looking I’ve had a thing for Natalia Tena for a while now.

4510

He’s totally trolling him - http://i.imgur.com/D2E1PHd.jpg

4511

I loved this episode, to me it was one of the best episodes of television I’ve seen in a long, long time. For one thing the visuals were outstanding. This simple scene for instance, it’s the kind of thing that makes me sad other shows don’t make the effort.

Also, there was a sequence of scenes that just was one ‘oh crap’ moment after another. The witch takes the kid, then the wall climb, then Theon, then the Frey thing where the king of the north essentially has to grovel, then…it was aweome. A nonstop barrage of all these interesting characters getting swept up into a whirlpool of deceit.

Theon I think can’t allow himself to consider it’s a Bolton, that’s my guess. Imagine you’re Theon, would you even speak the name? Loras I thought was not acting stereotypically gay, I took it to be him trying to play along with the clueless Sansa, in an attempt to be reassuring. At first he wasn’t very responsive to her at all, then he seemed to remember she was an innocent pawn in all this and that’s when he started in with all his thoughts of his wedding day.

I think they are doing well with the changes. The Littlefinger scene and payoff was great in that it establishes him as really bad, bad guy. Tywin and his ilk are one thing, powerful and clever people who will do whatever it takes to get their way. Joffrey is another, a bad guy who is randomly evil. Littlefinger though, he’s now the ONE character who is a scary mixture of both. Before he was simply a social climber with questionable ethics, possibly even justified in his anger over being mocked for his lesser family background. And he has his eye on the most sweet and innocent girl on the show.

4512

Well, not yet, but of course there’s something fairly close in the future anyway so obviously he’s not above getting his hands dirty. Besides, running a whorehouse, I imagine he can be pretty rough with people as he so chooses. Kinda like Al Swearengen.

— Alan

4513

Is he that important in the great scheme of things, though?

Easy, her god told her.

What was Edric’s fate in the books? Didn’t he just get shipped away to someplace safe by Davos?

4514

Correct.

4515

On the other hand, Gendry’s role in the books was undefined. Sure, it seemed like we left him with the Brotherhood, but what would have happened later?

I’m sure that if gendry had a role in the future books GRRM would have told it to the showrunners.

4516

This is going to be one of those seasons, where it all just about gets going and the season ends, isn’t it?

4517

There’s a lot of interesting theories out there about Bran’s future, I won’t repeat them all here. But, it seems to me that if you have entities like Coldhands and Bloodraven taking a large interest in you, big things might be in store. And I’m not just talking about eating Jojen Reed.

4518

Speaking of Jojen - I find him mostly annoying in the books, but I think the actor playing him is doing a great job so far! He played Liam Neeson’s son in Love Actually, if anyone is having a “where do I know him from…?” moment.

4519

For the last few books, that’s how I’ve been feeling in general. I wish GM could write faster.

4520

Given his age and his Santa Claus shape, it’s a distinct possibility that he’ll pull a Robert Jordan on us.