As someone who hasn’t read the books, the white walkers teases are the only thing more boring than Daenerys’ adventures. I’m sure they totally get interesting in book 9 or season 14 or whatever, but if they don’t actually do anything in the mean time, the show shouldn’t have introduced them so early, or handled them differently at least. Creepy legends that will kill you north of the wall? Fine. But hinting that they’re marching south and are going to be a threat to the rest of the world and then not doing anything with them for three seasons now—during which time a paralyzed child has been carried on foot from one end of the kingdom to the other—has totally undermined their credibility.

They got past the wall the same way Sam did. Went through the secret passage in the Nightfort.

I always knew the show was going to have to do something different with the Bran storyline. If they stuck to the books, it would just be Bran and his group trudging through the snow for two seasons while everyone else has adventures. I can see where they’re going with him being captured at Craster’s Keep. It should be good, plus as Tin wrote, it allows us to see what happened to the mutineers. In the books they just sort of go away.

A few episodes back (last season) we saw them holed up in the ruins of a Night’s Watch fortress. Sam snuck Gilly and her kid through a secret passage in the Wall and up an old well. I’m not sure if we actually saw them going through.

If you mean the murdered Lord Commander Mormont, he is the father of Jorah Mormont, Dany’s right-hand man.

If you mean Craster himself, he’s Gilly father/husband, and the father to Gilly’s kid.

Previously, it was sort of the last “civilized” outpost before the wilds of the Far North, as served as sort of a moral breaking-point for members of the Watch (including Jon and Sam) where Lawlessness was on one side and Law on the other. Sort of a fantasy Dodge City.

In the show? No idea, at least not anymore.

I don’t think I do either, but I’m sure he was probably introduced somewhere.

Do people really like Stannis that much? He seems total JV squad for me, along with Jon, Sam, and Bran. His scenes are generally even less interesting than Daenerys’ freedom kingdom. And we were robbed of a decent fight scene against the Masters only to show Dany up in front of a really terrible CG castle. No thanks. Spend some of that budget.

Yeah, that’s a GRR Martin problem. He treats those allegedly world-shattering threats just as static backdrop for what he’s really interested in: writing vignettes about characters and their relationships / intrigues. His large-scale story building is fairly terrible, not to say nonexistent. The show quietly corrects his weird aimless ramblings all the time.

Yes. He was the Night’s Watch man who called Craster a bastard to his face last season and then killed him. He’s the most violent and physically capable of the mutineers.

I was mostly joking. I’m not a huge Stannis fanboy by any means, and I probably prefer book-Stannis to show-Stannis. I do love me some Davos Seaworth though, both in the book and in the show.

My theory with the Others is that they are actually Ice Giants and it’s leading to a Thor tie-in.

I remembered the character (Karl, according to IMDB) from last season, but I wondered if he had been recast. Burn Gorman is a pretty recognizable actor, and I didn’t remember noticing him last season, but the internet says it was him all along.

Don’t hold back John – what do you really think?

The conversation between Tyrion and Jaime is a consequence of the early arrival of Jaime in King’s Landing half a book ahead of schedule. It changes A LOT as far as Jaime’s character is concerned and the effects can sometimes be pernicious. GRRM agonizes over when characters arrive at a locale and can interact with the other POV characters, because it can have such a large impact on the story (the famous “Meerenese knot” when writing ADwD was about this issue with GRRM’s plot).

In this case, we see why. It’s the Butterfly Effect, once more, in full flight.

That episode was maybe 2% from the books. Literally the only things from book 3 was Ser Pounce and Jaime giving Brienne Oathkeeper, and any scene with Jaime back on track for his redemptive arc felt off after the fact that he raped his sister was ignored by the show.

Dany’s scene in Mereen and the invasion of the city through its sewers was on track with the books, as was the crucifixion of the Wise Masters. Petyr’s and Sansa’s conversation was stripped right form the book, though show Sansa is not quite as naive as book Sansa – again, she’s older – so Petyr’s answers are a little different.

We never see Oleanna and Margaery talking in the books as neither is a POV character. The scene resolves that Margaery knew nothing of the plot to kill Joffrey (which cannot be true in the books as they were sharing the same wine cup in the books so she had to know not to drink the poison by accident) and otherwise moves forward with setting up the Margaery vs. Cersei battle of Queens which plays out quite nicely.

Bran’s story required changes (again, an early arrival North of the Wall), so doing so without involving the supernatural seems to work out well. People will whine and howl over how Jon would never meet Bran and would never have let him go, but Book Bran is 8 and this King of the North in the show is 13 or 14. And more importantly. this Jon Snow is not yet Lord Commander.

We will see an attempt on Bran’s life by Locke and Jon will know that he cannot keep him safe at Castle Black. He will let him go.

This was arguably the worst episode in the entire series so far.

That’s your opinion. I rather liked it.

I do think you are going to have to readjust your expectations. The series will divert more and more from the books as AFFC and ADwD have whole swaths of pointless crap in them which will never be shown on the screen. Readjusting character’s tales (because they cannot just park them and do nothing with them as GRRM does for whole books at a time) will have continued MAJOR impacts on the storyline. Deal with it.

Soon, we will all be “unsullied” with no idea what is going to happen. Thete will be no spoiler free threads on the Internet – as there won’t be any spoilers left. Last night’s episode gave us a major taste of what we will feel through much of Season 5 – and all of Seasons 6 and 7.

That’s funny. I cannot wait for Jon Stark to put a sword through Stannis’ Karstark loving black heart. I’m with you on Davos though.

I believe The Others were creatures summoned, created or otherwise released by the Children of the Forest as their “biological weapon” to defeat the First Men. The Others, however, had other ideas and escaped whatever control the Children thought they had over them. So it’s all the Children’s Fault – unless this was always the intent of the Children of the Forest (which is entirely possible).

And Iron Man avenging his ancestors would fit right in.

It was Midgard all along.

SER POUNCE!

The GF and I literally high fived when he was mentioned. He is the one true king at King’s Landing.

Other than that, that episode kind of blew. Most of it deviated from the books, in a somewhat major way, possibly changing future moments significantly. The ending was the only cool thing, as it shed light onto something that was only theorized in the books.

I never really felt this way before this episode, but the show is kinda losing me. I didn’t think about it before this, but the show is a lot more violent than the books. The books are gory and bloody as hell with horrible rape and incest and murder, but it isn’t as “shocking” as this show happens to be. Most of the book stuff is in the background, mentioned and not seen. (Theon, I am looking at you.) How much cooler would that storyline have been if it was like it was in the books. They could have put Alfie Allen in a ton of makeup after missing season 4, and show him as “Reek” in season 5. Minds would be blown.

GRRM is one of the least fantastical authors when it comes to fantasy, that is why I love him. Characters act and talk like people. People with high minded ideals (Dany) come to the realization that their actions have repercussions. Those people she saved aren’t safe at all, and this world is not ready for her. Tyrion loses everything but his charm and wit, and Cersei becomes almost (almost) sympathetic.

I don’t think that the show is capable of this. The Craster’s Keep stuff was just awful. Yet another excuse to show “how brutal this world is”. We know guys, we have seen the show. I was saying to my girlfriend as I was watching how cool it would be if Jon Snow and his merry band of book-deviating rangers got to the keep only to find it decimated by White Walkers or wildlings. Bran disappeared, led off by Coldhands to the north.

We will see, but that episode did little to keep my confidence level high about the show’s tackling of the books.

Also, Strong Belwas watch is at a 1/10 right now. They need this character!! There is no humor in Dany’s story anymore, he added much needed levity to the proceedings. And he was secretly one of my favorite characters.

I think the problem with the show is all the storylines running at the same time. This week we had little 3 - 5 minute short stories to move each of the sub-plots along. Sansa, Tyrion, Cersei, John, Craster’s, Bran, Arya, Dany, Stannis etc… each one has to be touched on constantly. The books handle it as single serving POV chapters; the show doesn’t really have that option.

Bringing the Craster, John Snow, Wildling and Bran (semi-spoiler and possibly Stannis/Davos) stories into one place will help simplify things a bit.

That was my reaction, it was a lesser directors version of GOT. The stand up for Jon scene was a groaner, Littlefinger’s little speech was unnecessary, and what was that - drinking from Mormont’s skull? Could we be more heavy handed?

I realize they don’t want the audience to forget the White Walkers, but I question that choice as well. You lose a little of the mystery in the process.

Did I miss something? Why did Locke get sent to the Wall? Is he simply there on Bolton’s orders?

Theon told them Bran and Rickon were still alive, so Bolton sent Locke to grab them if they tried to meet up with Jon.

Either I’m drinking too much or memory loss is setting for real - thank you.

The whole Craster’s Keep scene stuck in my craw in general. Too grimdark for me (seriously, can we keep the rape to every second episode or less?) and Craster’s wives chanting was lol-worthy. Pretty sure I literally rolled my eyes at that part.

That said, I don’t mind the changes to Bran and Jon’s story, but it does make me wonder where they’re heading with it. Will it be a minor detour from GRRM or are we looking at some sort of wholesale rerouting?

Also the show needs a lot more Eddison Tollet.

edit: The Locke stuff lost me as well. They didn’t do a great job keeping up with that particular plot thread.

Interesting article about the differences between the books and the show. Spoilers obviously.

HBO may have given away more than they intended to.


(Potential spoilers for future books)