5561

I figure Jon goes out to meet with/assassinate Mance, they catch him, are about to boil him alive or whatever, and Stannis & Co. arrive to save Jon. I don’t know that they have enough time for Jon to be elected/chosen Lord Commander and him bringing in the Wildlings or not.

5562

Jon didn’t shoot Ygritte in the book - at least as far as he knew. He comes upon her already shot with an arrow.

5563

IIRC in the book Jon is relieved that it wasn’t his arrow that killed her. I don’t recall if it is ever explicitly stated whose arrow does kill her.

5564

Speaking of Ygritte’s death by arrow, a realism nitpick: no way that little kid generates the velocity necessary for the arrow to basically run her through unless he’s using a crossbow. With a longbow, no way.

5565

His name was Olly, which I assume was short for Oliver Queen, so I bought it.

5566

Correct. In the book, it describes Jon looking for Ygritte after the battle and frantically hoping that it was not his arrow that killed her if she was dead. And, of course, relief when he finds that, indeed, it was not his arrow. It is never explained whose arrow it was in the book…not even sure there was a hint, unless I missed it.

I can understand the criticism about how there was no way 100,000 Wildlings attacked the wall, but I think the siege in the book lasted a few days. Jon did say, “Mance was just testing our defenses” (which kind of doesn’t make sense since you probably would want your rear force to attack the castle when your main force hits the gate at the wall or so), and he also mentions earlier that they (the defenders) will only be able to hold out for a day or two. I think these few lines were meant to tell the audience that the main force at the gate is still there waiting for another attack.

I admit I’m surprised Stannis didn’t show up this episode. And I found Ygritte’s death much more sad and heartbreaking than in the books.

5567

Not sure if someone addressed this before.

They explicitly changed this in the show - so that Tywin can be more of a schemer.

But, in the show -

  1. Barristan was not in the scene
  2. When Barristan joins Dany, they have a scene where Jorah is worried he is going to be outed, so he probes Barristan for info and Barristan says 'Oh yeah, the Small Council - I don’t go to those meetings."

Cut and pasted this down to the things we agreed with - or are close on.

Big Bow - yes - MOAR GIANTS WITH BOWS . . . that was awesome.

Jon and Ygritte moved me here in the show more than in the books - In the show, it really hammered home the Romeo/Juliet nature of their doomed love - they keep thinking some way it will work, right up until she takes an arrow in the knee . . . . er, lung.

Ser Allister Thorne’s progression was impressive and I think he makes a strong case to be Lord Commander, based on his performance here. I liked the progression. I see the election next season proceeding near the books - with delegations from the Shadow Tower and Eastwatch arriving - those two lords get cameos and are the main candidates vs. Ser Allister, who has his strong performance holding the wall vs. all the men he trained hating him.

Jon’s skill as a warrior, plus Ghost = one saved castle. Loved it.

Grenn’s speech to his fellow brothers - awesome - if I could nitpick, I would have loved to see the king of the giants busted through the gates, grabbing the night’s watchmen around him, while they charge in.

Long story short, this episode changed everything about the battle at the Wall . . . . but still told an epic, heroic, moving story, that ended right up where we needed to be for the story.

5568

Hmm, just seen that the final episode will have a 66 min runtime, so that ameliorates the slight disappointment of this episode somewhat in terms of lack of Stannis appearance, looks like they may have time to handle that plus the other main wrap ups. So what have we got? Bearing in mind that the final episode is titled “The Children”:-

  1. Stannis being a DEM; doubt they’ll have enough time to get to the “bringing the Wildlings in” thing

  2. Tyrion/Tywin. I’d love it to be the final scene, but it would probably be too much of a cliffhanger re. Tyrion’s fate to leave the season on, they’ll probably go all the way through that to his escape. Still, it would be a jaw-dropping climax, and a good payoff to tv viewers for all their suffering.

  3. Bran oop North (episode title is “The Children” - probably the first time we’ll be introduced to the Children of the Forest?)

  4. Dany (again “Children” suggests this may be the episode where one of the dragons - her children - kills a child).

  5. Hound and Arya - can’t see how this has time to have any great resolution at this point; although it’s conceivable that The Hound may succumb to his wound.

  6. LF and Sansa - I think we’ve had enough of a resolution with that, we know they’re going on a trip, and that’s pretty much where the book stuff ends anyway.

  7. The piwats. I doubt there’ll be any great resolution with the Ironborn, or any introduction of new stuff. Hopefully the Kingsmoot will be in next season.

  8. Dorne - I doubt we’ll see Dornish repercussions until next season, not enough time to establish Doran and the Sand Snakes, they’ll be new cool characters for next season.

  9. Brienne and Pod - possibly leading to Stoneheart? I’ve been around the houses on this. Seems like there’s not enough time to get to that, yet it would be a great alternative reveal to end the season on, and there’s Lena Heady’s tease.

So what do we think - final shot on Tywin’s face (but still leaving Tyrion’s fate unclear), or final shot on Stoneheart’s face (with the Tywin/Tyrion thing having happened, and it being clear Tyrion has escaped)? It’s got to be one or the other, surely? Stannis saving the day is another possibility, but doesn’t seem “big” enough re. tv show viewers. Another possible final shot (esp. given ep. title) might be the peasant coming to Dany with the burnt corpse of his child, but again, not sure it would have quite enough impact, but I think it will be in the episode somewhere.

5569

I assume we’re talking about the book 3 epilogue. That’s as far as I got. I’d love for that to be the final shot – maybe after one fade to black with Tyrion/Tywin, if they’re brazen enough. But does anyone else think show watchers would groan a little bit about it? I already see a little shifting in seats about all the magic and fantasy.

I guess they might be too excited about the righteous vengeance to care.

5570

The last episode was going to be packed. My prediction was different before I saw the trailer, but here’s what I see:

  1. Stannis DEM - there are scenes of this in the Season previews - so it makes it in.

  2. Tyrion/Tywin/Shae - Given the way the show was going, I had hoped that Shae was off in Braavos . . . but again, the Season preview shows her looking up from a rumpled bed. We get this sequence.

  3. Jaime/Cersei sexytime? - Whaaaaaa??? This is in next week’s preview . . . I didn’t see that coming . . . yeah . . . whaaa?

  4. Bran and the Hodorlings - They are making it . . . into the finale . . . not sure how far they actually progress . . . most likely until they meet a Child of the Forest - end scene, roll credits, end season

  5. Arya and the Hound face off some enemy in the mountains - whaaaa? How does this give her time to get on a ship?

  6. Daenerys chaining the dragons after some charred shepherd bones maybe?

  7. Brienne and Pod - they are done for the season.

  8. Same for LF and Sansa - done - starting their trip.

  9. Cryptic tweets aside - I don’t think we get a Lady SH reveal at the end of the episode

5571
  1. Also, we need to see the Mountain not dying and maybe a touch of Qyburn. Packed episode.

Interesting symmetry if we see the two Clegane boys both dying in this episode - ‘Children’

5572

Guessing:
The final shot will be the Frey son about to get hanged…then the hangman pulls her hood back and it’s revealed to be catelyn/stoneheart.

5573

I remain nearly convinced that the ending will be Brienne & Pod, possibly running into a small band of Freys, then getting caught by the band and getting the Stoneheart reveal. It makes way too much sense to combine two scenes because they are way too similar and split in multiple seasons, and it’s better to have a good reveal here. Tywin won’t be the only shocker.

Potentially Arya & Sandor also run into someone, Clegane gets wounded, Arya refuses to kill him, and near the end of the episode makes it to the ship.

Don’t see them radically altering Tyrion/Shae/Tywin, more than likely second to last scene.

Stannis and his army definitely arrives, at some point after Jon meets up with Mance. Maybe in the same (extended) sequence.

Don’t think Sansa and LF will make an appearance.

Daenerys will get a charred child bone dump more than likely.

— Alan

5574

I’m actually thinking they will save Lady Stoneheart for later.

I just finished re-reading the books, and the thing that stood out about her is that she hasn’t actually done anything yet, other than the big opening scene to establish her cred. Whatever her ultimate role is, it doesn’t have much to do with the next segment of the overall story. She can easily be saved for the start of next season, or even the one after that.

Plus they have way too much to get into next episode. Tyrion will take up 20 minutes easy, and allow at least ten for Arya and the Hound. That leaves half an hour to wrap up Dany/Sansa/Jaime/Brienne/Bran and put some sort of pin in the Wall storyline (I don’t see how they’re going to shoehorn Stannis into what little time there is left …) (Edit: 45 minutes, apparently it’s an extra-long episode.)

5575

I thought #9 was just ok. Next week…they have so much stuff to get through, its going to be interesting to see how well they can address all of those story lines.

Speaking of Ghost…why is the show so light on the wolves? The scene with Jon and Sam in the elevator was great, the key exchange. Sam opens the cage. Ghost kills a dude. Then nothing. It was like 20 seconds and only 5 of it with the actual wolf. I don’t think I have a Dire Wolf fetish but I have really wanted to see some wolves tearing shit up and that hasnt happened.

5576

Same reason for why they only had 1 mammoth and 2 giants, when they originally planned to have more. Time and money. There’s never enough on a TV budget.

5577

So did the “Theon/Reek tricking the Moat Cailin Defenders” thing happen in the books? If it did I sure don’t remember it.

5578

Yes it did, Papageno.

5579

aannnnnd, I am wrong . . . Careful review of the preview for next week shows Oathkeeper being drawn . . . so I think we are getting Brienne fighting the Hound . . .

Although I have no idea how that sort of massive change translates into Arya in Braavos . . . and the potential Gravedigger at the monastery.

Much less how this can be told in this jam-packed episode. . . . wow

5580

Did it happen in Dances with Dragons? Because I’m admittedly not done with that one.