5601

Rumor/speculation has it that GRRM has big things planned for that character.

5602

So this episode was just one long battle, really. I’d have liked to see a bit of some of the other characters, but I still liked the episode well enough. At least it was a good battle, and I thought it was much better done than the Blackwater one. This time around it really does look like a lot of people are involved, where the blackwater one looked like 20 guys running around on a beach.

I can’t wait for the last episode. I wonder how Arya is going to have time to leave Westeros. Where did she board the ship in the books? Does anyone remember if it’s mentioned? Arya in Bravoos (or whichever free city it is she goes to) is one of my favourite parts of the whole series, so I can’t wait to see some of that next season.

5603

Wasn’t it called Saltpans or something, or am I thinking of AC4 for some reason?

5604

No, I looked up Saltpans and that’s the one. It’s reasonably close to the Blood Gate, so I guess she could make it there in the next episode, although I guess the specific port could just be changed for the show, if they felt they had to.

5605

Jon’s Likely Fate MAJOR MAJOR SPOILER THEORY

[spoiler] Jon was mortally wounded in ADwD. He’s not staying dead, but yes, he’s dead, or at the very least - dying.

The first magic we see in the entire Song of Ice and Fire series is the raising from the dead of Kal Drogo by Mirri Maz Duur - so we all know for a “fact” that in this world, that spell can be done by someone who knows blood magic – and that Melisandre knows those spells. The problem with Kal Drogo was that particular blood magic spell heals the body, but the mind, (the soul if you must), is gone. So it does not really work as advertised. Kal Drogo is left in a vegetative state. Which is what Mirri Maz Duur intended, of course.

As GRRM sets up in the prologue to ADwD concerning Varamyr Six-Skins, Jon Snow has an advantage that Kal Drogo did not: Jon Snow is a warg and the essence of his consciousness transmigrates in to Ghost on his death. So Ghost has all his marbles - and they can be put back into his body if it is healed and brought back to life. Melisandre probably knows this, too (though maybe not). But either way, she’ll eventually get there.

So… add one part Melisandre; one part ice cells under the Wall enchanted to preserve bodies mentioned several times without any particular purpose in ADwD = Checkov’s Gun); a cup of the fact that Melisandre’s POV chapter specifically has her asking R’hllor to “show her the King” in her flames (“but all she could see was Snow”); four cups of the legend that Azor Ahai is destined to be, literally, reborn by the death of his love Nissa Nissa (which will translate to “spirit” I expect = Ghost); three-quarters of a cup of the technicalities of the Night’s Watch Oath (“and now his watch is Ended”) and BAKE for several hundred pages in the forthcoming TWoW.

The path is clear to Jon dying, being reborn and taking his place in the Game of Thrones free of the Oath to the Night’s Watch as Robb Stark’s named heir as the King of Winter – and later, given R+L=J, as the son of Rhaeghar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark, – the Song of Ice and Fire, after which the series is named.

And if Stannis Baratheon, Usurper, lasts long enough for that to happen after having backed the Karstarks, the story arc is clear for Stannis to ultimately be killed by Jon as Melisandre stands by and does nothing to save him – knowing finally that she made a mistake in her interpretation of the prophecy and that Jon is the Prince that was Promsed all along. (I really want to see Jon kill Stannis!)

It’s about as clear as GRRM gets, really. [/spoiler]

5606

Saltpans or Gulltown if they pass through the Gate – either will do. The port isn’t important, only the ship and its destination is.

5607

Steelwind, I always look forward to your contributions. You raise some really good points.

5608

For those of you who have read the books… of the contenders, who is left still alive at the end of the last book GRRM has written?
I havent read the books but I dont mind being spoiled… so have at it…

  • Stannis
  • Jon Snow
  • Danerys
  • A Lanister
  • Reek’s master (the newly appointed Bolton kid)
  • ?

anyone else? (feel free to wrap your answer in spoiler tags)

5609

The Contenders Are:

[spoiler]

Pretender For the Iron Throne, First of His/Her name, of the Andals, and of the First Men, (titles, titles…)

House Targaryen

Aegon Targaryen (However, believed by most to be a false Targ and the “Mummer’s Dragon”)
Jon Targaryen, (assuming R+L=J and that he was true born, as seems likely)
Danerys Stormborn
Tyrion Waters, (assuming Tyrion is the bastard son of Aerys Targaryen and Joanna Lannister, as seems likely. If declared a true Targ, Aegon is a fake and Jon dies, Tyrion has the best claim to the Iron Throne and would supercede Danerys, as he is both older and male. A better bet is he stays a bastard and will serve as Hand.)

House Baratheon

Tommen Baratheon (current King)
Myrcella Baratheon (Current Queen under Dornish Law)
Stannis Baratheon

Dark Horses for the Iron Throne

Sansa Lannister, nee Stark; Sansa is the only generally known living heir of House Stark, is the heir to the Riverlands should her uncle Edmure Tully die in captivity without issue, and is being set up as the Lady of the Vale depending on whomever she ultimately marries (whether Robin or Harry, he won’t live long). Given that Littlefinger is behind her, she seems – far and away – the most likely dark horse to seize the throne through strength of arms and a marriage to “Aegon” Targaryen. Let’s hear it for Darth Sansa!

Shireen Baratheon: Stannis Baratheon’s only living heir. If Stannis dies and the Usurpation was legal, she currently has the best legal claim to the Iron Throne after Stannis.

Edric Storm: Bastard son of Robert Baratheon and Delena Florent. If recognized as a true Baratheon, his claim to the throne would supercede Stannis’ claim, Shireen’s, as well as Tommen and Mycella’s (as Edric is older than both). The same goes for Gendry, for that matter, but Edric seems a better bet for this darkest of horses.

King in the North

Jon Stark, declared to be a trueborn Stark and not a bastard, named Heir to Robb Stark before his Lords Bannermen
Brandon Stark (presumed dead until recently)
Rickon Stark (presumed dead until recently)
Sansa Lannister, nee Stark and
Arya Stark (presumed dead)

Dark Horse for the King of Winter

The child of King Robb Stark and Queen Jeyne Stark, nee Westerling. While Lady Sybil Westerling assures Ser Jaime that Jeyne has been given moontea and is not pregnant, the descriptions for Jeyne given by Jaime and Catelyn do not match, especially with regard to the width of her hips. If the real Queen Jeyne escaped and is with the Blackfish, and she was pregnant, her child has the best claim to be the King in the North after Jon Stark, who was proclaimed by King Robb to be his lawful heir in a signed document signed and witnessed by all his Lords Bannermen.[/spoiler]

5610

Man, the thing about Jeyne seems to be about five different leaps of logic.

— Alan

5611

No, just one. If you read the descriptions of Jeyne, they don’t match. This could be due to the POV nature of the novels – or it’s a deliberate subterfuge by Sybil to save her own life and preserve her family from execution by the Lannisters.

Either the real Jeyne was in Riverrun, she isn’t pregnant, and is on her way to Casterly Rock – or she got out, is almost certainly pregnant given the number of times she was banging King Robb daily – and she is with the Blackfish. We’ll know soon enough.

5612

You mean in about five years?

5613

Optimist.

5614

/rimshot

Seriously, the series is gonna wrap before the books, I would bet a lot of money on it.

5615

It’s three years next month that ADwD was released. I think TWoW is out next year, either summer or fall.

Beyond that? It may well be five years; and I’m not even sure that will be the last. By that point, GRRM may be looking to change the ending shown in the series quite dramatically. Might take 8 books. Who knows?

5616

Pretty safe bet at this point. So safe, I am not sure you will find anybody to take the bet.

5617

Well, I wouldn’t bet on it, but I woudn’t be terribly shocked or surprised if he does manage it.

The idea of him taking geologic ages to write things comes from the 5 year gap between ASOS and and AFFC, and the 6 year gap between that and ADWD. But it took him 3 years to write ACOK (bar 300 pages that had already been written and excised from AGOT), and it was only one year and a bit after that that he turned in ASOS. It was a few months late at that point (difficulty with the RW).

And ASOS was the biggest of the books up to that point, and generally reckoned the best.

Which shows he can write pretty damn quickly under certain conditions. It’s not beyond the bounds of possibility that we might be lucky and the lightning strikes again, especially given the commercial bonanza possible if he does time it all right.

5618

— Alan

5619

Emma doesn’t look too pleased. Maybe she’s not a fan.

5620

Awesome! I especially like the dual feline touch. How old is Emma?