I suspect that, contrary to everyone’s expectations, TWOW will be out early 2015 (before season 5 comes out), and that the essentials of the continuations in that book of Sansa’s story and Bran’s story (which have hit their wall this season) have been shared by GRRM with B&W.
That is to say, book readers will have a chance to catch up with those continuations before season 5 comes out.
And apart from those stories, the material from books 4 and 5 will be plenty to fill season 5 with good storytelling (if not quite so many shock moments).
As I said in an earlier post, everyone seems to be forgetting that ASOS only took him just over a year to write, and it was the biggest book of the series up to that point - it’s not that he’s incapable of writing fast. ASOS being a few months late was what started the hullaballoo about him being slow, and then the 5 and 6 year gaps between the next two books cemeted that. But there are reasons for those gaps other than him being a slow writer per se.
Teiman
5682
Good episode.
A bit weird the women knight finding Arya, but worth it for the fight after it.
The wildlings attack now even feel smaller, … like 40 guys lost in a forest. Strangely, I can’t accept Stannis having such a huge army and moving it around easily. Who paid… oh, I get it, the iron bank. Still I think the show failed at showing the wildling army as a huge migration.
Yeah it’s crazy that they didn’t even attempt to make the Wildling army look larger.
Razgon
5684
I’ve always wondered how the old 60’s movies like Cleopatra, Ben Hur and Spartacus managed to get such huge armies where they actually HAD 4000 people, and no-one does this today?
They spent a lot more money (inflation-adjusted) on those people…
The barbarian extras union went a little too far when they demanded full dental care packages.
In my opinion I still think, both in the books and the show, that the Hound will live and eventually face off with the Frankenmountain brother.
I also thought that the omission of the story was weird, but the way they resolved it is starting to feel better to me. Tyrion wanders into his father’s chambers in kind of a daze… it’s like he doesn’t really know what to do; as much as his family has been terrible to him, they were still his family. I think he just wants to understand why his father agreed to have him executed.
I don’t think that they needed that falling out. It was a bit weird in the books, given that Jamie never seemed to be the type of guy who was in denial about stuff like that. And unless GRRM had some weird brother v. brother climactic fight planned for Book 13 or whatever, I’m not sure what plot purpose the two of them leaving on bad terms might serve.
In the books she was sleeping around quite a bit at first, then seemed abruptly to stop. Is Cersai as promiscuous in the show? I seem to recall a scene of her acting coquettish towards the doomed page that gives Robert his wine, but I’m not sure if we ever saw her in bed with anyone but her brother. Anyone have a better recollection?
This is true. But I personally was never too comfortable with the seemingly-abrupt change in Tyrion from being a stand-up kind of guy to a slasher-film villain.
Add to that the fact that the book Tyrion was always a bit darker than the show Tyrion. The book Tyrion had people (ok, blackmailers) murdered and thrown into stewpots for cannibalistic revenge, while the worst that the show Tyrion did is sending Janos Slynt to the Wall.
I don’t miss Coldhands in the slightest. I’ve never been quite clear on what he brings to the story other than being a character who could explain the entire mythos and scope of the Big Bad Guys to everyone if he just sat down with a beer… and yet inexplicably does not do so.
Yeah, this here. Last season they had a couple scenes that showed the huge breadth of the Wildling migration, but the last couple episodes actually made the raiding party look bigger than the main force. Odd.
Cersei ordered one of the young knights to sleep with her, whom Tyrion consequently blackmailed into becoming his informer.
I wouldn’t call it coquettish. There’s a scene of her and a naked Lancel Lannister in her chambers and she pointedly tells him to shut up and get back in bed.
Ah, yes I do (now) remember that scene.
This one I can’t call to mind, though I certainly remember it from the books. Must not have made that big an impression on me.
The thing with Coldhands is that the reader is left in suspense as to Coldhands actual identity. That approach works on the written page. It doesn’t work on screen. That is why Ser Barristan Selmy is introduced immediately as Ser Barristan and the show does not bother with the ploy of “Arstan” for Season 3 and half of season 4. We just got Ser Barristan, straight up, from the get go.
Coldhands, reasonably believed by fans to be the undead, free-willed “zombie name” of Benjen Stark would not be fascinating for a season or two in disguise. We would recognize him immediately. There is no payoff on the identity front. Moreover, the actor who played Benjen, Joseph Malawie, was not available to appear in the show and had other acting commitments. A casting change on that front would not have made anybody happy.
Casting changes? As if that’s mattered much on this show.
Coldhands played by someone else would be even less noticeable since I presume there would be quite a bit of makeup involved anyway.
Zuwadza
5694
Is it ever explained in the books why Jorah Mormont doesn’t recognize Barristan Selmy? It seems really, really unlikely that he wouldn’t recognize him given that Barristan the Bold was probably one of the most famous knights Westeros and commander of the Kingsguard at a time when Jorah was fighting in tourneys and whatnot.
JonRowe
5695
If there is one thing I can fault the show for it is how poorly they have explained Daenerys’s name.
Everyone I talk to about the show that doesn’t read the books call her “Khaleesi”. I have some serious nerd rage about this, and most people say “That is what they call her” To which I reply, that is what Jorah calls her because he is a nerd and he is in love with her. Khaleesi is a title (that honestly she no longer owns).
Well, we can only assume that next season people will use her real name more.
Pod
5696
Coldhands is stated by the COTF as being as old as them. Benjen went missing like a year before Bran got there? (Or 2 years? I don’t really know the timespans. Definitely not 100+ years). Plus, I’d imagine Bran would recognise his uncle in some way.
I was a bit disappointed about the way they introduced Barristan – they didn’t have a cool staff trick, they had a lame CGI knife/scorpion :/ I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having the viewers know his face but the rest of them not know. If anything it adds a bit of intrigue, as the viewers will ask the exact questions people here have asked: “Doesn’t Jorah know who he is? Why is he pretending?” etc?
He recognised the old guy, but can’t place his face. I think it’s because Jorah hasn’t seen him in 20 or so years? And even then, he probably only saw him a few times?
Re: Arstan vs Selmy. Jorah thought there was something very recognizable about him but could not place it. Chalk it up to the passage of time, Selmy’s hair color changed to white and now with a long Maester’s beard (never worn on the show) and the lack of armor and traditional knight’s weapons in tow (which is how Jorah always saw him in the past as a Kingsguard) were enough to mislead Jorah who only knew him from a few Tournaments in which he had competed with him also present.
It’s not like they were drinking buddies or had ever spoken with one another. His voice was not recognized by Jorah. Jorah knew him mostly by reputation. They should have fought in Balon’s Rebellion together, notionally, on the same side. So did 20,000 others so that’s not much of a spacial conjunction. I don’t recall if there was anything mentioned about that in the books.
For all that, Jorah does, ultimately, recognize him.
Gil102
5698
In the books, I remember reading a few passages in which people would refer to Tyrion as being much more like his father than Jaime. I found this odd because, really, the only thing I saw that Tyrion and Tywin had in common was that they both were good at “playing the Game of Thrones”. Both show themselves to be intelligent, shrewd, and able to plan well for the future…and while reading the books, I hemmed and hawed a bit but eventually just accepted that it was enough for GRRM to show that being of similar minds makes two people alike.
Ah, but then Tyrion escapes and I remember feeling sympathetic towards him for wanting to murder his father after hearing the true story of Tysha and the way he has been treated. While making his way to the Hand’s chamber, I imagined a murderous Tyrion who felt he had nothing to lose. But then he sneaks into the bedchamber and finds Shae in his father’s bed. I think in the book she even mistakes him for his father and calls him her “Lion of Lannister” before realizing it is Tyrion and not Tywin. That was my “holy crap” moment. Finally, Tyrion (and the reader) sees just how much like his father Tyrion is and he just breaks. It was a really emotional chapter in my opinion…rooting for Tyrion as he stalks the halls intent on killing his father, then shock at finding out Shae’s betrayal, then sad sympathy as Tyrion strangles her, and finally satisfaction when Tyrion gets his revenge…but at what cost?
Sure, I liked watching it play out in the show, but unlike Ygritte’s death, I didn’t feel like the emotions were really there. Perhaps much of it is my own fault for having read the books.
Show-Cersei was indeed sleeping with Lancel, though in the books she has also slept with one of the Kettleblacks at this point.
Book-Tyrion is indeed much darker than show-Tyrion. He hits Shae several times in the books during their “relationship” (which in the books she treats him like a John but is never in love, whereas in the show she seems to love him, at least far more convincingly than book-Shae did) and is unreasonably jealous about her to the point of having all her guards either be homosexual, eunuchs, or even more hideously ugly than he. My qualm with the Jaime conflict or lack thereof is that it is a bit of a spoiler that its omission indicates it is not a long term plot point. But book-Tyrion seems much more likely to do something that would kill his remaining family including Jaime than show-Tyrion would be, even indirectly.
I don’t mind Coldhands omission as an important plot device, because really who knows if he is or isn’t. Rather, I’d argue he should have been included because Bran’s storyline is dreadfully boring in S4 and mostly invented, when they had a perfectly interesting angle they could have taken rather than another miraculous Stark near-miss at Crasters Rape Barn™.
The only problem is there is no one worthwhile left to get revenge on. For the tv show audience at least, all the ‘big’ names are gone. It’s like with Arya, her list of names became obsolete before she could do anything.
