See, I just disproved all of your points. GoT is definitely not a fantasy. Get in the real world already.
— Alan
the warlocks were in the tower with Dany btw, though he did leave out people getting cleaved in two and popping back together ;)
Oh right. Well haven’t you ever seen the magic tricks where people in boxes get sawed in half? Exactly.
— Alan
That’s not the point though. I’ve never seen anyone say that magic is out of place in this world, but the way Game of Thrones (and A Song of Ice and Fire) handles magic is far different than how Tolkien’s work does. All the examples of magic that humans use in Game of Thrones observe a kind of law of conservation almost, that anything you perform with magic will have a compensatory cost. Nothing comes about because someone points a staff or wiggles their fingers or possesses some easily tapped-into magical reserve that they can whip out at the most opportune moment. Except maybe the wargs.
Tim has a point, it’s a matter of how much you can stomach. I’d lose interest in this show if it had dudes in pointy hats raining fire from the sky on their enemies. I like the political infighting and lives of the people caught in the middle more than anything else. But I don’t mind the flavor and exotic-ness, if that’s a word, that the dragons and white walkers add. I’m curious to see what will come of all this where, by comparison, I didn’t really care if the One Ring ever made it back to Mount Doom.
Avtar
5725
I think it’s more that they need to be careful to not use magic as a Deus Ex Machina. If anything can happen at any time and it’s just like “Hey, magic!”, then that’s kinda shitty writing. By keeping to previously established things(like the fire-bottles), it doesn’t feel so random. It’s not really about the level of magic in the story, just how it’s used when it comes to the plot.
Teiman
5726
Magic in GOT is very rare, a one in a million thing. Magic is on the borders, outside civilization, and while magic happened in the civilization area, it happened many generations ago. I think.
Theres enough magic in GOT for us readers to consider GOT medieval fantasy, and not too much so we don’t take serius the politics content. The politics content is the point of GOT and magic is just other element to create trouble for the characters to deal with it. IMHO.
Not to discount your opinion, but that breaks down to a six of one/half dozen of the other from my point of view. Nobody gets a blank check. To look at it another way, the character with the closest thing the series has to a “win button”, Daenerys, has locked two dragons away, realizing that being the mother of dragons doesn’t mean you can control them. Not to mention the fact that she’s mired in local politics trying to free, and keep free, all the slaves. The most powerful faction, the Lannisters, are in debt and have lost their patriarch. Stannis, with his own personal witch, probably had to double mortgage his castle to get an army for hire. Rain falls on everyone.
Yeah, that’s pretty much how I look at it. I don’t begrudge the magic and fantasy content, but I don’t want it to overshadow the human conflict. Not while it’s so interesting.
Avtar
5728
But she got the dragons early in the story, so they are now a part of the story. That’s fine.
Now imagine that she didn’t get the dragons early on, but they’ve been established as something that used to exist, same as how the story goes now.
Now, lets say, instead, she got a bunch of ships, went to Westeros, and then the dragons hatched mid-battle in like a book 6 or something and saved the day. Wouldn’t that seem cheap? Not because of the dragons existing specifically, but that they were tacked on. That’s the kind of magic(or really just plot in general) the series should(and generally does) avoid.
Scuzz
5729
If the dragons should ever end up in battle, what besides magic would put an end to them. Because in this world it seems to me simply sweeping to victory on the backs of dragons would be much to simple, and therefore unlikely.
If it worked out that way it would certainly feel out of left field, like an unearned victory. I don’t argue that. I guess what I mean is that whether it’s a drastically un-level playing field or some random late entry win, it would be a factor of bad storytelling which, regardless of his failings, Martin doesn’t seem to be a victim of.
I realize your post is about something else but I thought it was a chance for me to give a slightly different view on her problems. The dragons, as far as I can tell, are acting normally. They aren’t doing anything a mother of dragons would be surprised to see. She’s not mired in anything, local political issues hold no sway over her.
Her problem is she wants these problems. She gives a crap about the damage her dragons are inflicting. She gives a crap about the local people. This is her choice. Does anyone think she’d wield three full grown dragons someday and not one innocent person would ever die because of those dragons? Of course not. She’s trying to be leader who only makes decisions that help people and never does anyone wrong. She’s naive and learning that it’s not possible. If she survives to wield those dragons, she’s going to be a difficult opponent for her enemies because she’ll have dumped all the weight of empathy that’s slowing her down right now.
Yeah, I’m more in agreement with this kind of interpretation, especially after reading this rather excellent series of essays.
Read the last few pages of her final chapter again. Remember what you are, what you were made for. Remember your words! “Fire and blood.” And at that exact moment she stumbles, which hides her from the dothraki scout, she calls her dragon, thinks, “To go forward I must go back,” and then waits for the most powerful khal post-Drogo and his men to find her. I could be wrong but I think that was GRRM’s way of arcing her from young girl trying to learn how to be a kind, empathetic queen, to the slayer of lies. The forces still within Meereen, alongside the Ironborn, can handle the Yunaki’i, but the Volantenese fleet is coming (Moqorro told Victarion that the tiger follows) and for that she’s going to need 30-40k screamers. This is liable to leave Meeereen truly wrecked, and as the dust settles she might hear of her brave nephew’s holding action over in Westeros and in book 6 Dany finally sets sail (and between the Ironborn, Yunkai’i, and Volantenese fleets she’ll have sufficient ships).
What I can suss out is Victarion’s horn. Will it affect one dragon, all that hear it? Euron’s gifts are poisoned, Vic will try to bind it, but will Moqorro betray him, make an honest error? The red priest has said he’s seen the glory that awaits Vic, but how strongly should that be interpreted through the priest’s perspective?
Edit: reading the Knot essays, which so far are excellent.
I guess I missed something in the show. I thought there were three dragons, but she only chains two at the end?
They said something just before that about being unable to find the third one. He’d been seen flying out someplace but didn’t come home.
The third dragon is her problem child. He’s like the dog who won’t stay in the yard, only instead of biting the neighborhood kids when he gets loose he goes all Godzilla on them.
Teiman
5738
Martin is using the dragons as another way to talk about “You don’t have the power, the power have you”. Kinda like the (dune spoilers) Paul has kwisatz haderach.
SlyFrog
5740
When is Season 4 going to be available on Amazon or iTunes by the way? I understand it already is in the UK - why not in the U.S.?
