JonRowe
5841
I don’t know how to feel about this.
I am considering not watching the show this season. I don’t want the books spoiled for me.
I thought the same thought for about two seconds, Jon; but how do you expect to achieve complete info blackout on a show as heavily covered in the media and social outlets on the web? Just can’t be done.
The show will reach a conclusion. The books… well, let’s just say I admire Jon’s faith.
olaf
5844
Agree! I would not at all be surprised if the books are never finished, at least by Martin. Just look at the dates. 1-3, tight story, the 3 books released in just over 4 years. Book 4? FIVE years later. Book 5? FIVE and a half years later? Book 6? 3 and a half years and counting, and its not coming in 2015.
I take that in the opposite way from you - the 3 books released in 4 years shows he can actually write fast, and that he was milking it with the middle books, stretching out the success in the context of it just being a book thing.
But with the tv show being a hit, min-maxing requires that he finish the books faster again. I’m fairly confident he can pull his finger out of his ass if he’s inspired enough (that’s the imponderable).
Scuzz
5847
I think if GRRM could have finished it before the show caught up to him he would have, any author would have. No, I fear he has lost the spark.
On a side note…Comcast will be having a free HBO week the week the new season starts up. Usually that means a re-playing of the prior couple seasons episodes. So if you want to see it, or missed some ( I missed the Season 4 final episode) then you should get a chance.
olaf
5848
Agree. I can’t really put myself in his place but I think if I were him I would have been embarrassed at even the prospect of the show catching the books. Now that has happened and he has shown no signs of that having lit a fire under his ass. He is no longer hungry. He has made it and is enjoying his success, celebrity and lifestyle. Good for him. But it kind of sucks for the fans. At least we have the show now! Without the show I think the books are still not getting done.
wahoo
5849
That has been clear for about a decade. He is not enthused about the project and his sidelines have had his enthusiasm. I think the HBO series was welcomed by him and not just for the filthy lucre. Maybe he will finish the books but I am not sure.
And even if he does, the decline in quality of writing means finishing the show instead of the books is no big loss. I enjoyed Feast more than most but didn’t like Dragons. Let a friend borrow it a few years back and don’t miss it enough to ask for it back. Don’t see myself rereading because nothing important happened.
RickH
5850
I think that’s probably the case. Time to take on a co-author.
Stephen King likely has a few in his hidden sweatshop he’d be willing to part with.
habibi
5851
I had complete blackout of the first 4 seasons. I just caught up with them in the past 3 months. Admittedly I had already read the books and it was easy to avoid. When Twitter-sphere was full of Red Wedding buzz, I heard it loud and clear. Provably had to quit Twitter then.
Pod
5852
I once read that he retconned the Sharpe books to give Sharpe a Yorkshire accent to suit Sean Bean’s portrayal.
That timeline is a bit misleading, he started writing AGoT in 1991 and a large portion of ACoK was written in that period. So really, of the entire series the only book that he wrote in a very short period of time was ASoS.
Mr_Zero
5854
I’m doing a reread of ASOIAF for a project I’m doing, and the debate over writing quality really interests me. On the level of sentences, I don’t see all that much difference. People harp on repetitive phrases from the later books (“words are wind”), but clearly forget that AGOT was often clumsy in its technique. He was even less sure then how to handle internal monologue, and he wasn’t yet clear what the vocabulary looked like. Did you know that he wasn’t sure if he wanted months in Westeros? There was a one-off use of “moonturn” in AGOT.
Anyway, from what I can tell, people are conflating writing quality with plot quality. Reasonably so: Martin doesn’t have the chops to sell us on any character in any situation. (Who does, really?) But by simply evolving the story has forced him into more situations where the dramatics can’t cover for his prose, so people are noticing deficits that were always there. And that’s not to mention the astronomical attrition rate, which by necessity sacrifices the quality of the later volumes to boost the intrigue of the earlier.
I’ll be the fanboy and say that book 5 was a masterful conclusion to act 2, superbly setting up what could be a fantastic act 3. I don’t want to get into spoilers, but book 6 has the potential to be absolutely amazing. I would also argue GRRM’s prose is better than that of most genre writers, and his characterizations, plotting, and dialogue are among the best fiction I’ve ever read.
Mr_Zero
5856
I checked out the Blot when it first started to get traction, and I was impressed by all the passion that went into it. (I’m all about deep dives, I’ll read any oral history or postmortem, even for things I’m not a fan of.) People seem excited by its conclusions, too, but for many of them I think they just wanted a reason to like a book that disappointed them – and that includes the Blot’s writer.
When I first finished A Dance With Dragons, I felt confused and dissatisfied by the book. It infamously built up to two major battles and ended right before them. More importantly, the big plot game-changers I expected didn’t happen — Dany hadn’t left for Westeros, she didn’t meet Tyrion, and nothing at all happened with the Others. So what was the point? Did Martin spend 6+ years writing a 1000 page “filler” book?
After a reread (or several), and much productive discussion on various forums, I now firmly believe that ADWD is the smartest, most complex, and most thought-provoking book in the series.
My question is: should anyone have to be convinced that they enjoyed a book?
Anyway! I can imagine this turning into a derail, so let me say: two weeks to go.
The thing that puts him head and shoulders above most genre writers is his love of the sound and evocative nature of language. It’s the Vancian influence, I think (or the thing in GRRM that makes him also love Vance). Like, all the character names being carefully chosen to do what they say on the tin, the place names, that kind of thing.
A very refined ear for the music of language, that’s what gives it the feeling of immense solidity and reality.
And that goes through to the actual flow of the prose, its tightly-circumscribed stylization, everything. Put intriguing plots on top of that and it’s all good, even at its worst it’s never less than readable (well, apart from some of the pirate stuff, which I must admit never really grabbed me all that much).
I remember reading Sandkings in Playboy (or was it Penthouse? Or was it Omni? Some magazine in an airport anyway) when I was a kid and thinking this guy’s writing was just generally better than most s-f writing. He’s the closest to a normal “highbrow” literary stylist that “our” genres (s-f, fantasy, superheroes) have got.
It was in Omni. Loved that magazine.
I probably still have that issue in a footlocker somewhere.
So when does the new season start again?
