Just shy of two weeks from now – April 12.

I’d put Guy Gavriel Kay in the category of literary fantasy as well. If you haven’t read his stuff, well, lucky you :)

I guess great writers use lots of extra words and tangents that don’t add to the story. GRRM is a very good writer, but I also think he gets carried away and has some pretty bad habits. He falls in love with words and phrases and he loves to describe stuff that has no meaning, even when described.

I think there was a bit of a discussion upthread, or in another related thread, about this, but I disagree. I think what seems like “fat” to you is actually part of the evocative nature of his writing.

IOW, like with games, there are always the two aspects - the story, plot (=gameplay) and the immersion (=simulation) factor, the aspect of putting you there at the scene with its sights and sounds and smells.

And that’s often what happens - e.g. at a moment when one’s life is threatened, one might suddenly notice a flower in a crannied wall, or the smell of pigshit coming from the stye - that sort of thing. And GRRM captures that very well.

So I guess it comes down to preference - as with games, do you tend towards a lean, mean fighting machine type of gameplay/writing that’s sparse on description and all about the action and story, or do you like to feel subjectively and sensually transported to the time and place where the events are unfolding? Bauhaus or Baroque?

Can’t help but jump back in on this! So the project I mentioned before is a breakdown of GRRM’s techniques, from characterization to plotting and everything in between. And while I haven’t nailed it all down yet, my thesis so far is that his time in Hollywood as a screenwriter made a deep impression on his narration. His appetite for every kind of history is huge – you hear all about characters’ backgrounds, plus get a pretty detailed description of most of the major locales – but he only nibbles at the telling details that literary fiction makes a five-course meal out of. I can think of vivid details, but really not many for 2m words. The bulk of the text is dialogue, and the bulk of the non-dialogue is who-did-what writing. Are the flower in the wall and the smell of manure examples that you recall, or were those just hypothetical?

That’s an open question, I think my study will be much better if I can more directly address the fans.

The thing that flitted by my mind when I said that was of course the reference to Tennyson, and a side-nod to Blake’s “minute particularity of things” (connection via Tennyson’s “flower in a crannied wall” and blake’s “To see a World in a Grain of Sand And a Heaven in a Wild Flower, Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour”). But re. GRRM per se it was mainly a bit in Dunk & Egg, perhaps one of the earlier fights, where everything is sort of magnified and hyper-real to Dunk (the water or mud or something that they’re fighting in, the weight of the armor) and then later on, at the tourney, similarly (e.g. feeling the weight and claustrophobia of the helmet, IIRC).

It’s actually a bit like that when you have those moments in life, time slows down, and you actually notice the world in a way that you don’t normally - normally we’re preoccupied with listening to our own thoughts. But life or death reality, like, as Boswell said, the prospect of hanging, concentrates the mind wonderfully. This is also referenced in one of the famous Zen koans - something about a guy being chased by a tiger, sequence of dire events, ending with him hanging off the edge of a cliff, and suddenly he notices - well, something like a flower in the crannied wall of the cliff, oddly enough :)

GRRM really gets that, and he also gets that actually you don’t need that many words to give a strong sense of immersion. Vance used to do it too - depict vast landscapes with just a few words that put you right there if you’ve experienced similar things yourself (e.g. on holiday). GRRM also has the other Vancian trope of subtly, just by describing the food people eat in a locale, or the clothes they wear, or their manner or habit, nailing their psychology.

It all goes back to the thing of, when you’re a child, your mind is on fire and you’re constantly creating context around everything you experience (“does it mean this, or this, or this?”). You don’t actually need much explained to you because what your mind is doing all the time is making connections and cross-connections, so fast you hardly notice it sometimes. Great writers are able to re-awaken the same faculty. Things don’t need to be explained in laborious detail, but just by describing the circumstances, the environment, the setting, a gesture, a look, your brain fills in the context, fills in the reality, or at least, guesses at it. (In real life, of course one’s guess would have to be tested, but in a story, the author’s letting you run with the guess that comes naturally first time.)

However, some writers don’t do any of that at all, it’s just “x did A, y says yadda yadda”. If there’s any description it’s spartan in a way that’s not evocative, just sets the scene in a basic way. What’s important to such authors is tracking what happens (story) and who does or says what. Not much interest in evoking. And some people prefer that style.

So at some point in book 7 there pretty much has to be a legendary battle, do you think GRRM will describe it or have characters talk about it afterwards?

He’ll probably describe it from multiple POVs.

But, no, instead he’ll describe whatever meal Hodor is eating while it takes place.

My bet is book 7 never gets written by GRRM.

George R.R. Martin: No More Song of Ice and Fire Once I’m Gone

“…because he’s too concerned about the quality of the stories.”

EL OH EL

George says he’s really buckling down on his activities to get Winds of Winter finished before Season 6 starts.

Looking back, Martin says his one regret is not plowing ahead into Winds after finishing 2011’s A Dance with Dragons.

“I was red hot on the book and I put it aside for six months” he says. “I was so into it. I was pushing so hard that I was writing very well. I should have just gone on from there, because I was so into it and it was moving so fast then. But I didn’t because I had to switch gears into the editing phase and then the book tour. The iron does cool off, for me especially.”

The article also reveals the name of the other show he’s been working on. No, it’s NOT Dunk & Egg.

We can exclusively reveal that the author is developing a new series at HBO called Captain Cosmos. The pitch: “At the dawn of the age of TV in 1949, a visionary young writer creates a science fiction series that tells stories no one else will dare to tell.” The pilot is being written by Michael Cassutt (Z Nation).

That golden age sci-fi story actually sounds pretty cool to me.

Yeah, right…buckling down. With football season coming up this fall? When will he find the time??

I keep telling you guys, I bet he’s going to surprise us all. It is not set in stone that he’s a slow writer per se. Remember, ASoS, the best book in the series so far, was written in just over a year.

I don’t think it’s too ridiculous to have fingers crossed for this.

just don’t hold your breathe

Well, when AGoT was published half of ACoK was done, and when that was finished he had big chunks of ASoS written (such as all Tyrion chapters, for example). My hope was that books 4 +5 were delayed because he struggled with how to stitch things back together once his planned 5-year break simply wouldn’t work, and that book 5 ended act 2 and would allow the final books to flow better now that he’s over that hurdle. But apparently not.

He didn’t dedicate himself to actually writing book 6 until Jan of 2013. But he had 100s of manuscript pages from chapters moved out of book 5, and if he actually makes it around season 6 that means a good 3.5 years to write 80% of the 1500 pages. My take is he’s too distracted, has too many assistants, has his fingers into too many pies, both creative and business. ASoIaF has become a cottage industry that’s derailing the man from finishing the story because it’s made him a wealthy celebrity author. If he finished book 6 late this year or early next the best thing he can do is forego a signing tour. The publisher doesn’t need it to sell copies, and he tends to really increase his output toward the end of finishing a book. Which is why we see him lamenting not staying in writing mode and plowing on into book 6 when he finished Dance.

I saw a quote somewhere today where GRRM said probably “spring of 2016”.

Not holding my breath on that. I’ll go ahead and predict late summer or fall for 2016.

The sales on A Dance with Dragons were phenomenal in the month after the 1st series aired. In fact, that release and the rest of the book sales that summer made GRRM fabulously wealthy.

Publishers noticed & GRRM noticed. They are both very happy to ride the coat-tails of HBO. June/July 2016 sounds right to me.