No, it was immediately clear that it if that was supposed to be Gray Worm, it was a different actor. But recasting happens a lot on the peripheral characters in this show, and this guy was the first Unsullied we see this season, hence the couple minutes of having no idea who that was supposed to be.

This.

I mean, Dany’s boy toy was replaced without warning by another actor (who looks much less the part, IMHO – previous boy toy was perfectly cast).

It wasn’t at all clear to me, but I admittedly have sub-par facial recognition skills.

Also the Mountain was recast twice, right? And I think the younger Lannister who’s now king, or maybe a different one? And Bobby Draper a couple times!

That’s understandable, I’m not saying you (or anyone else) are a bad viewer because you didn’t recognize the actor, that happens to me too with other characters. I was just clarifying to Tin Wisdom that gurugeorge’s point—as I understand it, because this happened to me (and scharmers)—is that Game of Thrones’ reputation for recasting characters has added another layer of uncertainty in this specific situation. Knowing that was a different actor wasn’t enough information to know if it was supposed to be a different character.

I guess everything you point out could be the way of it. I thought this was all an arrangement between House Lannister and House Tyrell. With Tywin out, this puts House Tyrell in the driver’s seat doesn’t it? Is it really an option for Cersei to say “Tommen, you’re not marrying Margaery”? How in the world is Cersei going to best the Queen of Thorns in this?

I think of it like in The Godfather. Don Corleone was the Corleone who could dictate terms. The Corleone family itself could not dictate terms. So, in that spirit, Tywin could make or break marriage deals, he was their Don Corleone. House Lannister without Tywin is just another house now, they don’t even have Jaime or the Mountain anymore. In some ways Cersei finds herself in the same situation as Stannis, she desperately needs allies but given how she is she’s not going to have an easy time finding them.

Margaery, being a schemer, is not as relaxed about it as Loras. She probably realizes that were she in Cersei’s shoes she’d be plotting double time to try and come up with some kind of big move. Loras though, he’s a fighter. You win or you lose, either way once it’s decided then the fight is over. I think he believes the fight is over.

Her next “boy toy” will be interesting to see the casting.

Yeah exactly.

And that’s the sort of micro-attention-to-detail thing that every art form needs - zillions of the little buggers, some really subtle, but some making a huge difference to the way something impacts an audience.

I only know this really well from the point of view of music, but I can only imagine it’s somewhat similar with visual arts as it is with games as it is with music - any complex art form, the really, really big difficulty isn’t the technical thing of making the thing. That, you take for granted - everyone at a professional level has the chops, or gtfo.

The really difficult thing is riding the wave of how so many tiny, subtle things can change the “gestalt”, the impact of how something hits the neutral end-user - some kind of overview as to how all the synergies of the work are working together.

For the team making the thing, they can’t afford to take that overview, they have to put all their attention on perfecting their corner of the work. But it has to be the job of someone to have that double vision - to be able to straddle both seeing it from the maker’s point of view, and seeing it from the audience’s point of view, as if they’d never seen the thing before.

Kind of an ability to reboot the brain and just suddenly see the thing afresh, each time you see it. Precious, precious ability, because it’s really what makes all the difference between those things that you see that have lots of bits right, but don’t somehow don’t gel, and those things that you see that really do gel, and are “in the pocket”.

I mean, there’s three levels: shit stuff that’s just shit because the people making it aren’t very good, then in the middle, loads of things that are made by people who are actually quite competent, but they don’t have someone on their team who has that overview thing, and then the great stuff, which is the same team, but this time with one or two people who can actually take that overview and have confidence in their ability to make those judgement calls (some of which can seem off to the team - again, trust is importantly involved here). (There’s another category, too I suppose, granted how I’m cutting the conceptual cake: stuff that’s made by poor teams but is produced well - turd polishing can also fall into this category, e.g. a movie with a shit script that’s passably entertaining because it’s been put together really well.)

Anyway, that Grey Worm event shows how easy it is to slip up in something so trivial that has quite a big impact. It’s not just us here that noticed that, I’ve seen it mentioned on several reviews too.

I thought it was Grey Worm at first because, well, who else would it be? There aren’t a lot of recognizable Unsullieds. It was only after I realized this was one of those establishing scenes where the particular characters aren’t the point that I realized it wasn’t. Before I read the books that was one of my main problems with the show, who are these people and why are they important again? Sometimes you aren’t supposed to know who they are, and sometimes they aren’t important. That can throw you off.

Interesting Theory on that boy toy

For the upcoming trials of Cersei and Margaery - there is no Kettleblack to accuse Margaery - Olyvar could be more important to the TV series than he seems.

Good reminder.

I do like the Don Corleone analogy.

All power resides in the boy-king is the basis of this riddle.

A boy king sits on the throne - his mother, a great knight, and a pretty lady all stand in front of him. The mother, the knight and the lady all beg the king to dismiss the other two and appoint them as the regent to rule in his stead until he ages to maturity. Who becomes the regent?

Power resides where men believe it resides. A bold move immediately after Tywin died could propel any of the three into rulership. IMO.

I also got a promo from my cable company, 9 bucks for 3 months, so I took it for the season.

Couple random replies:

  • I was also confused by the Unsullied, I also wondered if they recast Grey Worm (or if I forgot what he looked like)
  • Re: Sansa. I wondered if they were re-inserting Littlefinger’s home (and Sansa’s experience there-in)
  • Re: cutting Tyrion & Penny and all that stuff. I remembered the timeline different and just confirmed in on awoiaf.

book stuff

Tyrion’s travel over the sea is pretty much the same: uneventful and sucky. The travel to Mareen is the eventful part, so we haven’t seen how much will be cut there (unless, I guess, if you watched-ahead and know something I do not). Griff, the Stone Men, Jorah and Penny are all on the way to Mareen.

I think the Stone Men thing has to happen at some point right?

No more required than the Stone heart woman, IMO.

I think that there are certain unknown implications from Tyrion’s (book only) boat ride run in with the Stone-men.

Ed Skrein, the original Daario, ditched to go star in the Transporter reboot.

Where is the beautiful blue hair?

So it’s pretty clear the producers have decided that it’s less confusing, or cheaper, or both, to re-use old characters rather than introducing new ones. Though frankly I kinda preferred that
theeeey’re baaaaack

Bronn and Jaqen

stayed away from the main characters in the books after playing their parts. Nothing became their roles like the way they left them, to coin a phrase, and I wonder whether keeping them around will be an inevitable anticlimax.

The TV show is making the parallels between what’s going on with Dany and a certain other memorable act of public justice much more explicit by the way they shot it (in the book didn’t Dany stay in the pyramid the whole time?) Which might make some people who are convinced Dany can do no wrong think twice …

What am I saying, based on his track record Martin is so good at misdirection that we’ll always fall for his sleight of hand. I’m sure everything will work out fine.

I don’t believe that Dany scene even occurs in the books.

I hope the showrunners know what they are doing.

Jaqen’s reappearance is a little surprising. Isn’t he supposed to be around the Citadel? Or is that a different Faceless Man. I suppose one could argue that the Faceless Man seen her with Jaqen’s appearance might be a different person entirely from the Faceless Man in season two, right? It’s a departure from the books to be sure but alright.

Jaime going to Dorne is something else altogether. He has to be out of King’s Landing while Cersei (mis)rules there - but whatever the showrunners have happen on the way to Dorne is going to be made up whole cloth.

Ellaria Sand - really painful to watch. She is now a composite of Arianne and herself but her dialogue was just bad: “The Sand Snakes are with me.” Uh, those are your daughters you are calling Sand Snakes. I thought she was really outclassed by Alexander Siddig and made the scene difficult to watch because of that discrepancy.

Bronn - having him go with Jaime makes a certain kind of sense since it’s all new anyway. I like the actor quite a bit so I’m looking forward to seeing more of him. The show seemed to treat this like a bigger reveal than it actually was. If he took Loras now that would have been surprising.

Brienne and Sansa - this was horrid. The whole world is lookig for Arya and Sansa Stark and Brienne happens to run into both of them just on sheer dumb luck. Badly contrived scene and poorly written. Why wouldn’t Brienne tell Sansa that she has seen Arya? The whole scene served as a reminder of how silly it was that Brienne didn’t approach Sansa when both were in King’s Landing. They were both in KL at the same time last year and Brienne couldn’t find a moment to talk to Sansa?

I’m starting to have just a little bit of concern about where some of this is going. Trimming scenes and storylines is necessary but this creating brand new ones is something else, particularly when some of these decisions are bad like this.

Oh, I didn’t realise the US gets this on Sunday and the UK on Monday. So now I know Jaqen and Bronn are back. Stopped reading right there when I realised what was up (I assumed the previous reference was to some background sighting of Jaqen that I hadn’t noticed). Thankfully that post is the last one in this thread :)

My GF and I spent then entirely of that fake-Grey Worm scene going “Is that Grey worm? It doesn’t look like him? Maybe they switched actors, like they did with everyone else? They’ve switched Cersei’s daughter, y’know?”

Is this a reference to episode 1 or 2? If it’s 1, I have no idea what act of public justice this is. If it’s 2, I’ll find out tonight sometime…

It was kind of missing the whole Valonqar thing. Which further leads me to believe that such prophecies aren’t important in the books and basically coincidence ;) Much like the parentage of John Snow – it’s an interesting background thing, but I bet it amounts to diddly squat in the books and nothing of any use comes from the knowledge of it. I wouldn’t be surprised if the show drops it entirely.

Witch