5981

That seems unlikely given that “who’s Jon Snow’s mum?” was (according to interviews) the “test question” GRRM asked the boys, to finally cap their interview when they were asking him permission to do the series.

But I think there are a lot of red herrings too, and the Valonqar was probably one of them.

I believe something in the Dorne stuff is going to remind us about Jon’s mum - e.g. maybe Bronn and Jaimie will stumble across the Tower of thingy and thingy and some of that backstory will be revealed in Jaimie’s reminiscences; while, perhaps simultaneously, we might get something like a flashback in Jon’s mind to when Ned said “I’ll tell you who your mum was when I get back” way back in the first or second episode. And there’s also Ser Barristan who’s in a position to give Rhaegar backstory to Dany.

At any rate, I think they’re going to ramp up reminders of that conundrum in the course of this season, to bring it back to punters’ attentions.

5982

And I think you couldn’t be more wrong. The series is titled A Song of Ice and Fire for a reason. Whose song do you think that references? Why did Rhaegar say to Elia about their son that he didn’t need to write him a song in Dany’s vision in book 2?

GRRM asked that because they’d been telling him they were such huge fans of the books. He wanted to test that statement in case they were bullshitting him and just looking for material to use.

5983

I think the discussion of greyscale was foreshadowing something coming up soon.

5984

I’m pretty sure we’ve only seen the first half of the Maggy flashback. We need the second half to show why Cersei believes in the prophecy. And the Valonqar stuff can (probably will) happen in that one. I don’t necessarily think it’s a red herring; I think who Cersei believes the Valonqar to be is the red herring. She believes it to be Tyrion, but doesn’t Valonqar just mean “little brother” and isn’t Cersei the older twin? Jaime’s arc seems to be leading him to be that character.

5985

Martin (and presumably D&D) know how much the fans liked Jaqen, and although Martin has said that he didn’t plan on bringing the character back, I think it’s not a terrible thing for the show’s producers to minimize the number of new faces for the HBO version.

I’d say “see above”, but I think Martin probably had/has bigger plans for Bronn in the later books, so it might be that we’re seeing some of them early in the show. It’s a good decision I think: Bronn is a fun character and Flynn plays him really well… plus the interaction between Jamie and Bronn in previous episodes was great.

I can see where you’re coming from on this, but I think you are selling the showrunners short.

Not exactly – we knew from the coach-on-the-road scene last week that they were in the vicinity; we know that Brienne and Pod are heading North from the Aerie, and we will know that Sansa and Littlefinger are heading SOMEWHERE from the same place… now reveled to be North.

I also liked how they sold the fact that Pod happened to see Sansa - lusting after the serving girl and following her progress around the room.

Eh, I excuse that simply by dint of the tense conversation. Brienne makes her case that she’s here to protect Sansa, and Littlefinger lists off her failures one by one. That might not be the proper time to say, “Oh, I saw your sister a couple days back - I fought the Hound to ‘save’ her from him, but she didn’t want me to protect her, took off, and now I can’t find her.”

No argument on that.

Overall a pretty good episode. I was disappointed that Jon Snow’s nomination and election were done so spur-of-the-moment. I liked the short scenes in the books where Sam runs a shadow-campaign on his behalf… I appreciate that they have to trim stuff back, but <sigh>.

I am pleased that they have (for now) dispensed with Griff & Co. and extended Vary’s role in the story. The wordplay between the eunuch and the dwarf is a lot of fun: “Must we spend the whole trip talking about the futility of everything?” “You’re right… there’s no point.”

5986

I missed that stuff as well. I think having Sam just blurt it out and getting Jon elected in one scene shortchanged Sam. In the book, his effort to get Jon elected came with a lot of shrewd political maneuvering, showing that Sam can be an effective bureaucratic force and advisor - foreshadowing his assignment to the Maesters. I know the show had to reduce it all down to one digestible bite, but I would’ve liked to have seen a bit more of Sam being a great politician.

As for Jaquen, Bronn, and Varys, they’re fan favorites and it makes sense to keep them paired up with main characters so the dialogue has somewhere to go. I am quite interested in seeing the journey Jaime and Bronn go on since that’s all going to be new stuff.

5987

I really enjoyed this episode with it many departures from book canon.

  1. Jaqen returns: I did not find this surprising at all, even though it is a departure form the books. The show has always had a penchant for combining multiple book characters into one TV character and/or using some shortcuts to make less interesting book bits more inviting to television viewers. Viewers equate the coin and “valar morghulis” with Jaqen, and that is who Aria is seeking in Bravos, so why not let him reappear to be one of her mentors in the story to come? He’s a popular character, and it makes the entire sequence of events far less confusing for viewers.

  2. The Jaime and Bronn show. I grinned ear to ear when I saw who Jaime had in mind. Bronn is such a great character in both the books and the show, and now we’ll get to see a road trip and budding bromance between him and the other Lannister brother. I predict a ton of fantastic laugh out loud dialog and shenanigans galore. Can not wait!

  3. The Brienne and Pod show. Slightly less enthusiastic about this one. Brienne just pretty much murdered at least three of Littlefinger’s Vale knights. That is not the way to prove you have Sansa’s best interests at heart. I don’t see where this is going unless the rumor mill is correct and Littlefinger is heading to Winterfell to try and marry Sansa off to Roose Bolton’s bastard. That would be a radical departure, and make very little sense for Littlefinger given what we know of him.

  4. Meereen. This seems to be running along a mostly parallel course to the books so far with only minor adjustments. The Sons of the Harpy stuff is straight form the books, as is the division between the former masters and former slaves that tears the city apart. The show has just condensed and simplified this for everyone. I liked it.

  5. Tyrion. Total departure, but for the better in my opinion. I enjoy his talks with Varys, and am curious what part he will play in the TV version of events to come.

5988

So are they completely off the books now? Last night’s episode seemed very different from what I remember in the book. I also expect the fans of the show will be disappointed in this season. Book 4 and for the most part 5 had very little happen in comparison to 1,2,3.

5989

Not completely, but many of the storylines form last night’s episode have diverged significantly from the events in the books and several characters who were never together in the books at this point are now together in the show. For the first time in the show’s run, book readers no longer have the advantage of knowing what is to come, and personally I’m kind of looking forward to it.

5990

That episode was better than the first one, but I don’t know if I am enjoying how much the show is veering away from the books. I don’t want to keep track of 2 timelines in my head, and it looks like that is what is going to be goin’ on.

I liked the bit with Drogon at the end, as a reminder to fans that he isn’t chained up in a pyramid, that he is still flying around. So, when he shows up again later people won’t be like “aren’t the dragons chained up?”.

I think that having Danerys have a scene where she has a public beheading was a good way to distill down some of the tensions and things that happened over the course of the (2 god damned) books so that she can move her story forward in time without being bogged down by all of the politics.

Having read some recaps of the leaked episodes, and not to spoil anything here, I think I might have to stop watching the show, as there are some MAJOR diversions coming up that basically spoil some book plotlines.

I think this may well be the season that the show jumps the shark, the books definitely did around the 4th one, and only slightly recovered with the 5th book. Maybe they can make the Iron Islands plot line take up some time next season? Kind of an important storyline, with where Reek and Asha are in the books.

5991

The Jaime & Bronn Adventures are definitely intriguing because as far as readers know, this storyline is not only ahead of the books, at least half of it (Bronn) is a divergence as well.

Also, this would seem to confirm my suspicion that Lancel is the substitute for the Kettleblack that gets Cersei into so much trouble.

5992

I don’t know that it will be that big a difference. In the books, Jamie heads to the Riverlands and - using his new-found maturity and patience - he defuses some of the nonsense happening in the siege of the Tully castle, dispenses some justice hither and yon, and basically shows that he’s grown beyond the impetuous douche who tosses children out of tower windows. And of course he gets out of Kings Landing so that Cersei can get her comeuppance.

And in Dorne, we get whatshisface the Kingsguard seduced, pulled into the intrigues of the Martells, and eventually killed. [I need to re-read, I honestly don’t remember much of the Dorne plots]

I suspect we’ll see much of the above in the Jamie & Bronn show. Maybe to the point of Bronn dying in the place of…er… Oakheart? Oakenshield?

Also, this would seem to confirm my suspicion that Lancel is the substitute for the Kettleblack that gets Cersei into so much trouble.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like a solid theory.

5993

Yes, I think his character-building will essentially remain the same, but obviously the details will have to differ quite a bit. In the book, he’s mostly a solo agent working out the deal with the Tullys. In the show, he’s going to banter with Bronn, (who isn’t really someone I’d characterize as the best voice of goodness) as well as journey South, entirely missing the negotiations. Maybe this is a journey Jaime takes later in the books? Maybe it’s something entirely new for the show? We won’t found out until whenever the next book comes out.

5994

I often wonder about the Iron Islands stuff. I mean, in the books, it seems to me like there’s a missing element in Dany’s control of the Dragons, her natural Targaryen dragon link doesn’t seem to be quite strong enough to control the dragons as they mature (maybe there’s some practical lore that was passed down through the family that she’s obviously not had passed on to her) - and it seems like the Iron Islands plot has something to do with introducing a dragon-control-mechanism (Victarion and the giant horn thing).

But the show seems to be just leaving all that Iron Islands stuff to the side. At least, it seems too late to bring any of it in at this stage - too late to bring such a big character as Victarion onto the scene, as we’re already nearly at the big Meereen events.

5995

They cut the kingsmoot?! But why?!?!

Because it’s boring and way too long and all the characters are basically all the same “tough islander” type, you say?

Oh okay then.

I could see them just having Yara pop up with it in the show if the dragon horn thingy ends up being a major plot point.

5996

I liked the Kingsmoot stuff because it showed more of the Iron Islands mindset, which is quite different from the rest of Westeros. Like gurugeorge, I’m curious about it as well. I’m not surprised it’s not in the show. I can imagine that all the ship stuff was prohibitively expensive, and the storyline cut into the stuff going on already. The way Martin wrote it, I wouldn’t be surprised if it does figure into the main story in a major way later on.

5997

I read some interesting speculation that maybe Sansa’s and Littlefinger’s destination is actually Winterfell. Further, that all the terrible things that happened to Jeyne Poole disguised as Arya will actually happen to Sansa, not least of which that it’ll be Sansa married off to the bastard formerly known as Reek. If true, that will certainly pull the slack on some loose ends.

5998

Speaking of horns…isn’t the Horn of Joramun (Horn of Winter) still in play? I was pretty sure it was shown in one or two episodes during Season 3…didn’t Mance threaten to use it to destroy the Wall if the Free People weren’t allowed to pass? Or am I thinking of the books and not the show?

5999

Pretty sure this was just in the books.

6000

I hear what you’re saying, and I’ve dealt with it by basically deciding that I’m not going to read any more books until a couple of years after the show ends. (Assuming GRRM even writes them by then.) Once the show ends and I’ve had some time for my memory to leak like the sieve that it is, I can go back and re-read the entire book series and enjoy it. It’s not a perfect solution, as I obviously won’t have a totally clean slate, but it works for me and lets me enjoy both versions.