6101

He’s not dead, or at least not yet. If they intended to have him die in this episode, they would have just slit his throat. But Grey Worm prevented it, so he didn’t die. GW isn’t dead either.

— Alan

Edit: though I dig EW’s analogy for Cersei’s behavior: “t’s like somebody became U.S. president, then sent Navy Seals after their high school bullies and gave nuclear weapons to PETA. Worse, really.”

6102

That’s what I thought as well, but as olaf alluded to you might want to check out the preview for episode five.

6103

I probably should watch it again but I thought the fight was fine. They were caught in an enclosed area, and overwhelmed in numbers. They did well enough it’s just that when you can’t afford to lose anyone but you do and your enemy can keep throwing more people at you, you’re going to lose.

I liked the temptation of Snow. The look she gave him at one point like “Are you serious?” was funny. As for Littlefinger heading south, well he’s a wrecking ball. He can’t wreck shiat in the capitol without being there. Also, he didn’t spell it out but I’m assuming hanging around with the Boltons is not an option. Wouldn’t they ask “What are you still doing here?” fairly quickly?

6104

I would agree if the series hadn’t set up these two guys as world class fighters, but in that context the scene is laughable. It’s not even a question of their position in the enclosed area, world class fighters would control the battlefield enough to not get cornered and surrounded. The circumstances and the outcome of the battle are incongruous with the lore.

6105

I thought it interesting that Rhaegar was mentioned twice in last night’s episode. And Lyanna for the first time since season one. I think we’re going to start getting more backstory finally, possibly even a mention of a certain prophecy and its conditions.

6106

It’s been confirmed by the actor he is done.

6107

The fight was terrible, there is no way to justify it. The Sons of the Harpy are depicted both in the books and the TV show as the upper class of Meereen, a city full of slaves that has hired outsiders to do the bulk of it’s fighting for it for hundreds of years. There is simply no way they are suddenly vicious and experienced guerilla warfare fighters. Contrast that to the Unsullied, who are regarded (again in both book and show) as some of the best heavy infantry money can buy. “Trapping” 10 Unsullied soldiers in a 10’ wide corridor should have resulted in two lines of 5 Unsullied each facing in either direction with shields up and spears out. They would have ground the unarmored, knife wielding Sons of the Harpy into sausage in seconds. Ser Barristan is a renowned swordsman and tactician. He’s a trained close-combat veteran and is in armor with a longsword. He should have churned through half a dozen unarmored knife wielding opponents like butter. Instead we get a fight scene only directors obviously unfamiliar with fight scenes could have put together. It was clumsy, it was awkward and it made absolutely zero sense.

Much the same way Littlefinger’s actions are making zero sense. He’s now abandoning Sansa with a known psychopath in a castle he knows is about to be besieged by an army. While there is little chance Stannis will harm Sansa (as they discuss), there is a huge possibility that Ramsey will when he sees his world crashing down around him. Best case is that Bolton and Ramsey us Sansa as a hostage to secure their escape. Leaving her in that situation is ridiculous.

But not so ridiculous as the Sand Snakes. I had to do a double take as it looked and sounded like Michelle Rodriguez was playing the role of Obara. It wasn’t, but the actress was equally as wooden and jarring in the role. Ellaria is also terrible, so together with the very poor scripting the Sand Snakes have become a confusing and laughable sub-plot without context (the Prince, the plot with Myrcella, etc.) to give them a reason to exist in the show.

I started out this season excited that the plot changes away from the books would bring a sense of mystery and anticipation I had not yet experienced (as a book reader) with the show. That is looking less and less likely with each episode as I feel only confusion and disappointment at the way characters have been acting and events have been unfolding. It is obvious that whomever is scripting the new plot points for the show is not a novelist and has very little sense of continuity of actions for characters in a lengthy story. Suddenly everything seems much more “made for TV” than in the previous four seasons, and ?I do not like it at all.

6108

I think the main thing this episode reveals is that the show is definitely pimping R+L=J, and I think we’ll probably see Barristan on his deathbed next episode telling Dany more about Rhaegar. The showrunners have kept the central “mystery” of the story on the back burner for a long time. I should think pretty much every “unsullied” who’s been watching the show has forgotten all about it, and a fair amount of this season is going to be geared towards putting it front and centre again.

(Amusingly, Cenk Ugyur in the TYT after-show review has now guessed R+L=J on the basis of the LF/Sansa crypt scene - smart fellow. It was fun to see it dawning on him :) )

I also think at least part of the point of Jaimie and Bronn being in Dorne is so that they can fetch up in the Tower of Joy for a night, and Jaimie can reminisce about those events. That is my prediction, which is mine. It’s the only way of introducing that place that would be natural, given that it hasn’t been mentioned at all for all 4 and a bit seasons so far, yet it’s so central to the “mystery”.

I must admit that I was also disappointed at the relative ineptitude of the Unsullied and Ser Barristan. It might be plausible that Ser B and a small group of Unsulllied could be beaten by sheer numbers, and I think that’s what they were going for, but they just didn’t have enough Sons to do it properly, the numbers were too evenly matched, in which case it’s just ridiculous that ordinary city-dwellers could do it (unless they reveal that there are lots of disgruntled pit fighters in the Sons, I guess).

Nice that the show finally acknowledged all the Stannis fans out there by having a charming scene with him and Shirelle.

Melisandre’s “you know nothing Jon Snow” was super-creepy.

6109

This.

And, I’m shocked that the showrunners changed the (incredibly, nearly universally maligned) books 4 & 5 and yet, still, fans are outraged! Shocked! /Sarcasm

6110

I’m not outraged that they changed the books, I was looking forward to that. I am outraged that the changes suck. They are mostly clunky, amateur, made-for-TV schlock and they make no sense in context of what has been happening for four straight seasons now.

6111

To you.

6112

What’s an EW ?

Of all the fan theories going around, Tyrion being the bastard son of Aerys/Third Head of the Dragon is one of the sillyest and I really, really hope it’s not true. At that everyone is a superhero good-guy Targaryen destined to save the world and GRRMs fiction is nothing short of an extremely slow comic book.

ps: Over easter I saw King of Kings. In it Roman soldier, armed with round shield and spears, lined up from end to end in a courtyard and proceeded to walk slowly into an armed mob of around 200 people (Barabbas’ followers?). I’m not a medieval military expert: But that’s exactly the same tactic I expected the world’s greatest infantry to have performed. Instead they all got stabbed with daggers. :/

and here’s an image off of google:

Unsullied suck.

6113

What do you mean, the numbers were too evenly matched? They were clearly more than outnumbered in every scene in last night’s episode, and by a lot. GW’s group had maybe 6-8 guys in it, and each side they were matched against like 10 people. Hell, Selmy had to take out like 10 dudes (and, come on, he’s friggin’ OLD–yes he’s the greatest swordsman in Westeros, but that doesn’t make him invincible).

Nice that the show finally acknowledged all the Stannis fans out there by having a charming scene with him and Shirelle.

Yeah I loved this scene actually. Tied in with super awkward return hug from Stannis.

Melisandre’s “you know nothing Jon Snow” was super-creepy.

Pretty creepy. Everything about her is creepy, still.

As for Pod’s screen grab, uhh isn’t that an image of a bunch of people in a central area that just got assaulted by spearmen from multiple angles? That’s a bit different.

And yeah, Selmy is dead-dead. Oh well. Just read an interview.

It proves you should probably not read the books. I’ve read the books. So I thought this season I was going to have more to do, and I was really looking forward to that. And then I got my dates from my agent and I thought, ‘That doesn’t tally.’ Because there was no way if they were sticking to the books that I should be in for that number of weeks. It seemed to me they must be writing me out. So I had a word with the line producer and said, “Can you corroborate that they’re writing me out?” Then the [showrunners] rang me and told me, ‘Your time is up in this series.’ So perhaps I took them by surprise that I knew.

…

But I think you have to accept—as I have accepted—that the demands of TV are different than the demand of book writing. With TV there’s a pressure to create a number of high points. One of the big things about this series—it’s true in the books and even more true in the series—is the surprise element, the shocks. They’ve got to keep that up because people expect that. You can’t predict anything but what you can predict is that there will be surprises.

— Alan

6114

EW = Entertainment Weekly.

I do like that the show tipped its hat twice to the R+L=J storyline. “That wasn’t Ned’s way”. No wonder Melisandre was so keen to seduce Jon Snow. (Hell, they even hinted Tyrion stuff)

Otherwise, it was all kind of shit. I did appreciate some of the Stannis the Mannis love going on in the episode. Stannis is beloved by book readers because he is, while harsh and sometimes misguided, a king who does the right thing. He can be misguided, but he does listen to reason (Davos). And he actually gives a fuck about things going on north of the wall, and killing Lannisters.

The Sansa plotline is fucking ridiculous. Hey, I am just going to leave you with a monster worse than Joffrey, hopefully Stannis comes while you have all of your appendages. I believe that Littlefinger’s goal was to turn Sansa into a more cunning Cersei like ruler, but I would call this pushing the chick out of the nest a bit soon.

The fight with the Unsullied and Barristan was not very good. C’mon. The harpies are all ex-slavemasters and rich folk who aren’t trained in fighting. They only have money and throat slitting abilities. I think they could have accomplished the same outcome in a more believable way. “What, a trap? Let’s rush in!” “Oh, we got surrounded?” Kind of dumb. The books do a pretty great job as selling the unsullied as the absolute finest warriors in the land (outside of Dothraki, maybe), and they are beaten by a bunch of people with knives in open combat? Spear/Sword beats a knife every time. I think they could have made more of an ambush. Have the harpys jump on them or something, because closing the distance on an unsullied with his spear raised should be mighty difficult.

I do like the Bronn/Jaime show though. Jaime was basically thrown out of the books on some task, at least this gives him something to do. More Bronn fighting is pretty great too. I liked Jaime’s save as well. Oh yeah… metal hand.

Also, greyscale is mentioned again and again, and Tyrion is on a boat… on a river… passing through some dangerous territory. I am kind of excited to see what the greyscale crazy people look like.

Otherwise, it seems like the show is doing some things right (stuff on book script) and making weird diversions (off book stuff). Stick to the books. The issues with books 4 and 5 are that they meander too much. A focused versions of those books would have been great to watch.

I am missing the Greyjoys stuff, mother fucking Aegon Targaryen, and Strong Belwas. Daenerys needs a new bodyguard. She is going to the fighting pits maybe? Maybe a strong Belwas is there? Please… give me this. You have taken so much from me, give me Strong Belwas. Who will eat the locusts?

(Spoiler ahead)

But when Daenerys is married to Hizdahr (which might not even happen) his betrayal dawns on you as Belwas eats way too many poisoned locusts. I remember really liking that moment in the books. Very similar to the moment the red wedding slowly unfolded. GRRM is incredibly good a writing prose that allows actions to dawn upon the reader as you read them, you always come to the realization that something is going on when the characters do (or slightly before).

Show needs to stop fucking around and tell the story of Ice and Fire. Stop it.

6115

I’m laughing at the people that said the Littelfinger/Sansa storyline made any sense before this episode.

“Well, ta-ta! I’m off to King’s Landing!”

6116

But if the Sons of the Harpy are wimpy slave owners who have no experience of manual labour and haven’t been trained in any sort of combat, then it should be easy for the finest spearmen in the land and the finest swordsman in Westeros (even if getting on in years) to handle that number (the whole point of spears is that you can maintain distance).

Really, you’d need more like 30 or 40 people on each side to give them any trouble.

It just doesn’t gel - all the Sons of Harpy would be any use for in reality would just be sneak attacks on civs and slaves, they’d be useless against anyone trained, except in circumstances like the first episode when throat slit while defences down, or with sheer weight of numbers.

6117

That is the thing though. The show hasn’t really explained that the “Sons of the Harpy” are mostly non-combatants, and a few sellswords purchased.

6118

Given how much they have changed from the books, I wouldn’t bet on the Sons are the same on TV.

6119

It was definitely a death-march from left to right. There’s lots of troops on the walls, but they just watched. I tried to find some video footage on youtube, but failed.

Either way: Linking shields and marching with spears is a tactic going back to like 1000BC. (I assume it was around before Alexander?). It’s a tactic that can be used with hundreds of people in a block or with 5 people. (Hell, we even saw the unsullied form a shield-turtle around Daenerys once, so they obviously know the power of a few linked shields).

6120

I think we just have to eat this one and imagine the battle was a lot more one-sided in numbers than they depicted. I guess the show is making the Sons much more dangerous than the books to show how dire a situation Dany’s in now.