Well, there is no Army bearing down on Mereen, or a horrible poop disease ruining everything.
Grey Worm, Daario and Jorah, just the three of them, killed dozens of armed soldiers when they snuck into Yunkai a couple of seasons ago. Jorah and Daario are good fighters, no question, but I think that type of scene underlines that lack of congruity we are seeing. If the Unsullied were going to die then at a minimum they should have died with their shields interlocked and fighting the way they were trained to fight - as a single unit. Why did they break ranks? It makes them look undisciplined. Unsullied stood up to to more than 10x their number of Dothraki chargers, their discipline and skill is why they are so highly prized. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
GW and Barristan died because the plot called for them to die. Barristan died looking like an untrained codger. Horrible choreography. If Barristan, GW and some Unsullied need to die then I think there would be much more plausible ways. Luring them into a building and throwing a bunch of wildfire on them, poisoning their food (which would be particularly Sons of Harpyish), just to name two quick examples.
I don’t think Grey Worm died.
Right. Sons of the Harpy are just mere slaveowners… IN THE BOOK. Who knows exactly what they are in the series?
As for Sansa… wow lotta hate for this storyline, but it does make a bit of sense… aside from the whole Lannisters-pissed-at-Littlefinger thing. It places Sansa in a perfect position to benefit–albeit, a dangerous gamble considering the Boltons–from either victor.
— Alan
Oh, I’ll agree that it makes a bit of sense.
Oops, my bad. I think you and I are both in agreement RE: unconvincing choreography and disappointed that the Unsullied don’t fight like Unsullied (phalanx, shield formation). We’ve seen them lock shields together a bunch in the televisions eries (for those of you out there harping on the difference between the show and the book).
Like somebody said upthread, GoT has to pay its actors, GRRM doesn’t.
I, too, was disappointed that the supposedly bad-ass Unsullied and supposedly bad-ass old codger got zerged by a bunch of fuckwits. Didn’t like the taste of it. But again, as somebody else also posed upthread, the decks had to be cleared for the next plot beat.
And it could have been worse. Grey Worm could have stepped on a rusty nail and died from tetanus. Barristan could have choked to death on an apricot pit.
Or the true nightmare: sticking to the books. 13 episodes of Meesa sitting around pouting, and the Imp wondering where whores go.
I think that you can stick to the books while moving things along at a faster pace. It just seems like they are doing that and completely cutting out storylines and characters.
Good bit of speculation here:
Exhibit A: Selyse Baratheon sniffs that Jon is nothing more than some tavern wench’s bastard; Stannis thoughtfully replies, “But that wasn’t Ned Stark’s way.” Exhibit B: Littlefinger tells Sansa about the Tourney at Harrenhal, a vital piece of backstory that the show hasn’t thought necessary to dispense until this precise moment. Sansa repeats the conventional wisdom that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped her aunt; Littlefinger thoughtfully says nothing. Exhibit C: Ser Barristan thoughtfully tells Dany how her brother loved to sing for the people of King’s Landing, painting him as a kind, sensitive monarch; he sure doesn’t sound like the kind of guy who’d kidnap and rape anybody.
— Alan
Welcome to the world of R+L=J
Littlefinger’s eyebrow arch was about as close as you could get to saying “Oh, you think that’s what happened?” to Sansa.
Overall - I enjoyed the episode - up to and including the cliff hanger ending.
I’m rapidly going from the know it all book reader and internet researcher to the Unsullied mindset of ‘Oh dear god who is going to get killed/maimed/mutilated next?’
I don’t particularly like the homophobic church arrest of Loras - would have much rather seen Loras and Margaery arrested for incest with Olyvar being the key witness under pressure from Cersei.
But the rest was pretty damn good - even with all the changes from the books. TV is a different medium and the entertainment is different. I’m happy with it.
PS - Littlefinger heading to the capital is . . . pretty much his next TV step - he can rule the Eyrie with ravens - and the Capital is where he can create the most chaos. He has set Sansa up to take power in the North . . . he’s not needed there.
i thought the Unsullied’s main advantages were no morale issues(they don’t get scared or discouraged) and being impervious to pain(so they fight to the end). I saw that in that fight. It doesn’t mean they can’t get their ass kicked, it doesn’t mean they can only be beaten under XYZ circumstances and only by specially trained fighters.
And Littlefinger said he’s going to see Cersei, it’s not he’s ever been deceitful right? When I see him groveling to Cersei then I’ll say “wtf?” but not until then. That guy is always working an angle. I thought his look at Sansa when she described what she thinks happened was a look of disappointment. Kind of like “After ALL that I’ve taught you about how the world works, you still believe that?”
Regarding the Unsullied fight, I get what they were going for. It was supposed to be a believable ambush. Unsullied were outnumbered, stuck in a tight hallway, armed with spear and shield which is not great for indoors fighting.
I had no problem with Selmy not being some kind of badass. He’s old. The problem with that scene is that the Unsullied weren’t outnumbered enough, they didn’t illustrate the hallway being an issue, (have a quick bit showing Unsullied getting in the way of each other’s spears, or banging their weapons into the walls mid-swing) and they’ve talked before in the show (season 3, ep 1) about how completely badass the Unsullied are with shortswords. Why don’t the Unsullied have shortswords? Previous episodes showed how tight the corridors of the city are. They should have a shortswords by now just as a matter of regular policy.
On top of all that, the pampered ex-slave owners seemed like really good fighters. Too good. Especially for guys wearing robes and masks fighting a professionally trained army.
Teiman
6135
This Ser Barristan dude is too old to fight, yo!
This unsullied guys they are having their own Afganistan/Vietnam here.
“You know nothing” feels good, even if it can be read has fanservice.
Unsullied are both trained in group spear combat and short swords.
That was a short sword fight if I ever saw one.
Unsullied IN THE BOOKS. How many Unsullied have you seen in the TV show carry around swords at all?
There was another great random callback in last night’s episode; Sansa finds the feather at Lyanna’s crypt, which was left by… Robert way back in the first episode.
— Alan
As I said, they talked about Unsullied being great sword fighters in the show. It was part of the translator girl’s sales pitch to Dany in season 3, ep 1. This is the quote from the show:
MISSANDEI: They begin their training at five. Every day they drill from dawn to dusk until they have mastered the short sword, the shield, and the three spears. Only one boy in four survives this rigorous training. Their discipline and loyalty are absolute. They fear nothing.
They should have short swords as a backup weapon at least. Even a damn idiot could see that spears and shields aren’t the best kit for narrow alleys.
They have masks on, so are we sure they are pampered ex-slave owners instead of mercs or paid assassins?
They could. Some of them are in the books IIRC. We haven’t been shown that though*, so the scene doesn’t work. For all we know it’s just a bunch of rich brats with knives fighting the most feared army in the world.
*Honestly, I don’t think they are in the show. That seems to give way too much credit to the showrunners to account for that level of detail. I think the scene as played was exactly the way it seemed. Ex-slave owners beat Unsullied and Selmy in a hallway ambush.
