As a non-reader, I’ve always thought Stannis was a “good man” to the extent that Westeros has any, who was being led slowly to his doom by Melisandre. He’s a generally smart guy trying to do the right thing for the kingdom, but he’s a little bit blinded by the fear that his claim to the throne won’t mean anything if he doesn’t actually take it, so he’s aligned himself with Melisandre because she’s (sort of) getting results, a compromise that will catch up with him.
Since he’s survived this long, and especially since his role at the wall, I’ve started to assume his downfall isn’t quite just around the corner the way I anticipated for most of the show so far, but I still think Melisandre is horrible and Stannis is a likeable character who’s made one enormous mistake that will get him killed or worse before this is all over.
Also, Stannis Baratheon has always been the coolest sounding name of any character on the show.
Yeah, I think of it as he is a good man, who listens to his advisors well, and makes the tough decisions that nobody else wants to make. But one of his advisors is a crazy witch lady, and he listens to her suggestions as well.
He is a tough character. I really liked this episode, and I loved the moments of him looking at Jon Snow. Snow and Stannis aren’t too different, as they both have the cajones to do what is necessary to accomplish their goals (Stannis to be king, Jon Snow to save Westeros) instead of whine and backstab.
This episode had some awesome stuff. The Daenerys storyline righted itself back into where it was in the books. Daenerys spent a great deal more time in the books worrying about the decision to marry a man who could be the harpy. And choosing what was best for the people over her personal Daario-related happiness. I thought her proposal was done in a perfect way in the show though. I really liked the use of the dragons, and seeing Old Valyria was cool. The moment where you see the movement in the background behind Tyrion in the boat had me gasp out loud.
Very well done. The stuff with Reek/Theon was pretty great. You are reminded that the Boltons are pretty much the most dysfunctional family on the planet. Just a reminder about Fat Walda’s size. Roose was paid his prospective Frey wife’s weight in gold to marry her… Roose knew what he was doing. “I am sure you are familiar with the procedure”
I would also like to be a fly on the wall in the BriennePodpartment. Their pairing fascinates me, Brienne is a pretty fascinating character who is honestly better in the show than the books
Some of this show, this season and the last, has felt like weird fan-fiction being acted out. (The Jon Snow return to Craster’s keep last season was the worst) But this episode felt very squarely back into groove of the books. Less preposterous action, and more character development. The scene between Jon Snow and his steward was excellent. They are doing a great job of showing the tension between the crows and the wildlings. I wonder if we are going to get to the Jon Snow event in this season or next? I will guess it happens at the end of this season, last shot of the season. (That or Daenerys’ wild ride)
I’d be interested to hear your expanded thoughts on that – my feelings go in the opposite direction.
Brienne in both the show and the books is sort of an homage/riff on the idea of a traditional fantasy “knight errant”: swearing a deadly-serious oath, giving fealty to a worthy lord, going on a quest at great personal risk, rescuing a damsel in distress. GRRM - as is his wont - chooses to turn all that on its head by the questing knight a woman and endlessly running into the hard-nosed reality of Westros, but she’s still the closest thing to Galahad that we’re likely to see in the SoI&F universe.
And maybe it’s just my own reading, but I always felt that the book-Brienne was a little too thick-headed. She’s portrayed to be dogged and determined, but mostly just because of her own belief that her current lord/lady can do no wrong and that following her orders is the only thing she can do. The character grows after her encounters with Jamie and due to her wanderings - she becomes more cynical and starts to see the gray between the good and the evil.
By contrast, the show-Brienne is also dogged and determined, but seems to start out inhabiting that cynical place earlier. Her stubbornness seems to be borne more out of a distrust of everyone else than by the naive, blind obedience shown in the books. The character is also growing, but in the show it’s the gradual realization that others have faith in her too and that she might not be the oddball laughingstock that she assumes everyone sees.
Having been both almost raped, and then almost fed to a bear by the supposed “good guys” can definitely spoil that idealistic disposition.
Brienne is basically The Terminator now. #comewithmeifyouwanttolive
#WhatFreshHellIsThis #HashTagsInQ2TForums #ForTheLoveOfAllThatYouHoldDear #StopTheMadness
Stannis absolutely is a good guy, he’s just hobbled with two problems. One, he’s inflexible for the most part. In his mind there’s the right way and there’s…the right way. Life is too complicated for that to work very well. Which brings us to his other problem, because of his inflexibility, he turns people off which means he has little support. This forces him into working with whoever can/will help him. This explains his witch, his willingness to kill his brother, his willingness to use the wildings, his offer to Jon, his trip to see the bank, etc. He has to regain the throne, it’s the right thing to do, so he has to do these other things because it’s the only way he’ll accomplish the right thing(regain the throne). If he had more legitimate support that witch would hold no sway over him, but then he wouldn’t be Stannis would he?
Yeah… I actually wrote this backwards. Whoops. She is better in the show than books. For the exact reasons you said. She seems more like a joke in the books, and less of an ass kicker.
Nesrie
6188
I have a hard time liking anyone who watches people burn alive. I realize it’s not really his idea, but that’s some harsh approach for someone who is supposed to be likable and good. But hey, in this series, there doesn’t seem to be a lot of good or evil so much as conflicting goals and attempts to pinpoint a real enemy.
Well crap. I was looking forward to a good back and forth. Agreeing on the Internet is no fun at all.
Team Stannis. He’s the king we deserve.
Stannis, who is described frequently in the show and the books as unambiguously unlikeable, seems to enjoy the burnings-to-death noticeably less than Dany, who is (I’m told) intended to be likeable.
Stannis is a stickler. It doesn’t matter if you’re talking the legitimacy of a claim to the throne or the grammatical application of fewer vs less, there’s a hard line between right and wrong and he’s the motherfucker to enforce it. People want to hold the shadowfragging against him because Reny was likeable, but remember:
1). That was the Red Woman’s idea.
2). There was a clear line of succession and Renly fucking cut in.
In spite of how distasteful Renly’s exit may have been, Stannis has grudgingly earned the respect of viewers and readers by doing what is required of the king, the only person in the whole goddamned series who can even say that.
MEANWHILE, at casa Targaryen: Dany is fucking negligent, incompetent, and at times, criminally insane. At least when Stannis burns someone it serves the added purpose of receiving a helpful buff from R’hllor, not to mention that he has the decency to scowl while it’s going down. And then you have chaotically evil Dany, feeding motherfuckers to dragons because they might be on the other side of her bungled military occupation. Varys sure can pick em :(
Totally agree with this. Keep that shit on Twitter where it belongs.
I will give Scharmers the benefit of the doubt and assume it was added in jest.
That’s one thing I found disappointing about the show. Vary’s support for Aegon makes sense, for Dany? Not so much.
rowe33
6193
#AgreeWithKemperBoyd #NoHashTagsForLife! #YOLO
I’m disappointed that I’m not looking forward to more Sand Snakes next week. It feels like one thing they’ve really botched casting-wise.
Yup. That was some weird shit there. I get that Dany was angry and didn’t have any voices of reason to counsel her out of it, but she literally fed a guy to dragons just because. There wasn’t any evidence that he was a conspirator or even sympathetic to the Harpies. I guess he just looked guilty.
Reemul
6196
NOw I ma on a month’s gardening leave I have just started this on catch up, managed the first 3 episodes of season 1 today. Very cool so far, not sure how long it will take to catch up.
Make sense to me. You’re a eunuch, so unable to do much of anything without a patron. You’ve worn out your welcome with the current monarch’s power-behind-the-throne, and so basically have three choices if you want to stay hooked into Westeros (which you do, since outside of it you’re just a eunuch, not a intrigue master). You can go to Stannis, who is a stickler for the rules as has been rightly pointed out, and thus is unlikely to look kindly on a master of intrigue - at best he’d tolerate you. You can try to catch up and ally with Littlefinger, who certainly is a kindred spirit but has also been an enemy in the past, plus he’s unpredictable and might sell you down the river at any time to cozy up to one of your many enemies. Or you can go halfway around the world to something of an unknown quantity, who is known to treat eunuchs well, doesn’t have the rigidity of Stannis, and if she manages to obtain the throne is likely to kill or exile pretty much all of your old enemies.
Doesn’t seem like a stretch to me.
Keep in mind that Varys was secretly helping Dany’s brother regain the throne originally. He threw in his lot with her once the brother was killed. The fact that she seems to be kinder and smarter than her brother worked out, but I’ve always found Varys’ loyalty to the Targaryen line a little troubling considering that he was ready to king someone that seemed no better than Joffrey.
Gil102
6199
Although I agree that how Dany handled the Masters was pretty over-the-top, I think the intention of having fake Daario push the first victim in was to infer that Daario or others around Dany were confident that he was responsible for some of the Sons attacks.
Or maybe the whole scene was meant to set up Dany’s change of heart later on when she realizes how dumb she was being. I still don’t get why Missandei would tell her that even when she doesn’t take her advisor’s advice, her decisions still work out. Um…not really…Barristan probably wouldn’t be dead had she allowed the fighting pits to open again and give the people some entertainment. Really looking forward to Tyrion getting to Meereen.
Yeah, in the books and the show it is cleary Daenerys has a lot of charisma and power, but not the best tactical sense.
It is as if she needed someone with a kind wit and tactical mind by her side.
hmmm…
