6241

Sansa was the carrot he dangled in front of Cersei to agree to his plan.

Then of course we have Sansa and her horrific wedding night. She shows that she is stronger and smarter than Ramsey’s jilted lover, but as of now it seems like she’s no match for Ramsey himself. Yuck. Again, this scene is a throwback to Throne’s first season with Dany’s being sold off to Drogo… but of course there probably won’t be any redemption for Ramsey.

Westeros has never struck me as a “no means no” environment.

6242

Rumors swirling around Jon’s true lineage, cries that winter is coming for five seasons without any real evidence yet, it’s barely even a Snow means Snow environment.

6243

Exactly. Littlefinger knows what he is doing the whole time. He never really “cared” for Sansa, in so much as lusts for her and the power she represents. He’s manipulating the Boltons, Sansa, and Cersei to try to gain Wardenship (sp?) of the North. He is probably planning on taking Winterfell and then Sansa for his wife once he prys her from the Boltons. He made his intentions clear early in the series that he wants control of everything.

6244

I’ve given up on expecting the show to be meatily GRRM-ish any more, it’s running purely on tv show script imperatives now.

So on the one hand, it is disappointing that it’s getting all sharkey-jumpey and convenient-concidence-ish, requiring a lower threshold of suspension of disbelief; but on the other hand, because I’m so thoroughly invested in all the characters, and because the acting is just always superb, and the production values so high, what is there is still gripping - and in the latter terms, this was probably the best episode this season, and it’ll probably be viewed as such by most viewers who haven’t read the books.

I wish I had the strength of will to stop watching, because I know that the main lines and resolutions of GRRM’s story are probably going to be revealed in this bargain-basement (relative to GRRM’s writing) sort of way from now on, but heck, it’s still a lot of fun to watch if you just take it for what it has become, and it’s still one of the best tv shows around.

6245

Jamie and Bronn showing up at the same time as the sand snakes to get at Myrcella in broad daylight in a courtyard made me groan out loud.

So fucking dumb.

6246

That really was very, very terrible, and then the awful fight choreography. As I’ve said before, I don’t pick up on a lot of your complaints because when I don’t understand someone’s motivations (having not read the books), I just assume it’s because I don’t have the bigger picture yet. But this was absolutely terrible on its own.

6247

I actually dozed off during the Dorne part after a really long Sunday so I completely missed whatever happened. Looks like that was actually a good thing!

6248

True to a point, but I don’t really think it’s all that much different now than it was earlier on. If we didn’t know where it was all leading, wouldn’t we think some of the early-on stuff was too convenient also? A lot of the things Arya and Jon survive, for instance. Or Tyrion, who by rights should have had his throat cut a half dozen times already…it only takes one pissed-off person unwilling to listen to who he is for about 30 seconds and he’s gone. Fat uncoordinated Sam just happens to find the right dagger to kill a White Walker, and gets a girl out of the deal to boot? We put up with the unbelievable in large part due to how we know it works out in the books, but now that we’re in uncharted territory, we’re feeling the belief difficulty more.

The horrible casting/writing for the Sand Snakes is an exception to this, I should add. They appear to have made no effort to make them believable, at least none that is in any way convincing to me. Everything they touch looks like a high school play, including the fight with Bronn and Jamie.

6249

It’s like someone saw a group of Michelle Rodriguez’s stunt doubles hanging out somewhere and thought “yes, that’s who should play the sand snakes” but then they couldn’t even afford actual stunt doubles.

6250

Spoiled the ending. This seems too dumb to bother with. I was going to get HBO Now and keep up with the series. I think I’ll just wait for the release on Netflix.

6251

A lot of the coincidental stuff is made more believable with proper setup. For example, you take a couple of books/seasons to talk about dragonglass and establish that Sam is a scaredy-cat but loves the wilding girl. Much later when Sam fumbles in a panic and stabs the white walker with whatever is handy, it makes sense to us as viewers/ readers.

Unfortunately, the sand snakes weren’t established very well in the show at all, the actors aren’t very good, the fight choreography wasn’t done well, and Jamie and Bronn getting into the (presumably) guarded courtyard wasn’t shown. The fact that they just seemed to waltz in with bad disguises made the scene even worse.

6252

No history of HBO shows ever showing up on Netflix, FYI. Unless you mean getting physical copies mailed to you like some kind of savage.

6253

HBO shows are on amazon prime though, (at least older ones)

6254

I don’t like Jonathon Pryce as the High Sept. He’s a fantastic actor, but I keep thinking “Hey, that’s Jon Price.”

6255

How about Mr. Eko showing up as a slaver?

6256

Jesus, I missed that one.

6257

TV Sand Snakes = Westeros Spice Girls.

Many missteps this season. Too many scenes where “Yakety Sax” should be playing.

Last night’s episode - I could feel the psychic anguish of some HBO producer wanting to show Sophie Turner nude (no T&A on last night’s show, either!), but somehow bowing to good taste and not doing so. Note: while we were first starting to play Quake on our Pentium 90s, Ms. Turner was being born.

Guess what is isn’t a misstep? Arya on her way to becoming La Femme Nikita. Guess where the show is sticking closest to GRRM? Arya.

6258

So a couple of weeks ago I was complaining about how much of the moving-away-from-the-books stuff was poorly written and poorly directed/acted. I described as “made-for-TV schlock”, then relaxed my stance a bit when I thought I might be overreacting. Turns out I was just being prophetic.

The Jaime/Bronn, Myrcella, Sand Snakes courtyard scene could not have been more made-for-TV schlock if it tried. All that was missing was Mr. T driving a black carriage with a red racing stripe and spoiler into the courtyard (by jumping it over some hedges), having the side door swing open, Dirk Benedict leans out and yells to Jamie, Bronn and Myrcella “Get in!” and George Peppard takes us out of the scene with this trademark “I love it when a plan comes together!”. I have never felt more affinity with a television character as I did with Bronn when he mutters “Oh for fucks sake” during that scene.

Terrible Dorne shit aside, I enjoyed the episode. The Arya story is actually greatly improved in it’s television form, far less confusing and dull. Events in King’s Landing are skewed, but still interesting, same thing with Jon and the Wall. The Stannis bits are entertaining, and as others have said, he’s coming off much more sympathetic in the TV show, which probably means he will sacrifice himself nobly in some way in the future. Tyrion and Jorah are still a bit far-fetched, but amusing. Dany’s plotline hasn’t been the best since diverting from the books, but could be redeemable yet.

There is hope here that the quality we’ve come to expect will continue, but not if the absolutely horrific scripting and direction of the Dorne plot leaks it’s way into several of the others. The more off path this show gets, the greater the chance it devolves into time-worn TV tropes. I have to wonder if the creators stated desire to only make 7 seasons is leading to more convenient, less nuanced writing this season.

Oh, and yes, the end scene was distasteful, though not unexpected. For those wondering how/why Baelish would leave Sansa to such a fate, I would not be surprised if it was his plan all along. Think about Petyr Baelish : He’s ruthless, cunning and ambitious. He’s also very intelligent. He wants Sansa Stark because she represents what he never could have in Caitlyn, and her lands and title are icing on the cake. But he’s smart enough to know that even if the Boltons and Stannis destroy each other and he rides in to save the day, Sansa Stark, Queen of Winterfell and adored daughter of the North, will never agree to marry him and make him Warden of the North and ruler of Winterfell, not when she could choose any handsome northern night among the hundreds that would flock to her banner. But Sansa Stark, abused and discarded plaything of the deranged Bolton bastard, possibly pregnant with his child and certainly mentally shattered from her experience at the hands of Ramsey Snow, there is a woman who would grasp at any straw to save her from her torment and shame. Baelish is the master of countless brothels, I’m sure it would not bother him in the least if Sansa was disgraced/damaged goods, in fact he prefers it that way, as then he can marry her for her title and lands while also having complete and utter control over her. Win-win in his mind.

6259

From Cogman’s interview in Entertainment Weekly

"The writer producer also confirmed that, for those suspecting Littlefinger might have known about Ramsay’s sadism, that Baelish was definitely ignorant of the situation. “The difference between the Ramsay Snow of the books and the show is the Ramsay of the show is not a famous psycho,” he said. “He’s not known everywhere as a psycho. So Littlefinger doesn’t have the intelligence on him. He knows they’re scary and creepy and not to be folly trusted and it’s part of a larger plan.”

6260

That makes it all even dumber.