6321

Okay actually I just reread your initial and followup comments a second time and I think I understand them even better now, so I see better (I think) what you mean about it “robbing her of that growth”. Rape is kind of a trump card here, as you say it’s always going to color things for the viewers now. Interesting point.

6322

You might be projecting your feels onto a story arc that isn’t EVEN completed. Whatever she does to Ramsay could be filed away under rape revenge, sure. Whatever else she manages in the future to do to House Bolton and or Littlefinger is still totally acceptable as Stark payback. Who knows, she may even have some plans and desires of her own beyond the scope of revenge.

And I don’t think it undermines her story at all. I have read over and over again how the camera panning to Theon robbed Sansa of her agency and served only to further his story. All I saw was him being tortured yet again, but Team Outrage suspects that will be his breaking point before becoming the Ghost of Winterfell™ or whatever. The title of the episode (which has doubled as the binding theme for the differing storylines for the show in times past) is Unbent and Unbroken. Theon is broken as fuck. My gut tells me Sansa pulls though this with a bit more grit than anyone seems to be willing to consider. Before Ramsay, Theon was the most brazen member of the extended Stark family, hands down. Sansa was on the opposite end of the spectrum, and unless the showrunners are just evil dicks I have a pretty good feeling that she’s headed towards Theon’s inverse. (now I’ve projected my feels, we’re even)

That’s certainly not something I ever saw in the cards for book Sansa, either.

6323

Well, book Sansa is headed in the direction of becoming a savvy political creature working with Littlefinger in the Vale, according to the book excerpt Martin posted.

6324

I hope book Sansa doesn’t die of heart failure before I can read more about her :(

6325

I don’t have a problem with the scene either, I was just saying I think it does qualify as rape.

As far as character arc goes, I reserve judgment on that until I have seen the entirety of Sansa’s arc in this show. For all we know, she winds up dying and Ramsay outlives her. That would upend any complaints about her arc being a revenge fantasy.

6326

Because Sansa has lacked agency in this story so far.To see her raped like that was unspeakable, she better start to fight back. Or I’m done. i’m not going watch this woman be savaged every week.

6327

I think that is the point.

Basically the show is having Sansa being raped into action. Where I think the books have her character doing something less shocking to become badass, and that is learning from Littlefinger in the Vale.

6328

If she died meekly just like that, then the whole point of her arc is, um, totally pointless. She became just a filler for the past 4 seasons. I’d rather see her fight back as a result of the rape than inaction.

6329

The rest of the musical, in case anyone missed it:

Coldplay’s Game of Thrones musical

6330

Sansa knew what she was getting herself into. Littlefinger didn’t force her to return to Winterfell. Why not take her word for it, when she tells Myranda that this is her home, and she’s not frightened?

I think we all expected and hoped Theon would wake up and intervene. But that would make this his story. It’s not. Nobody is going to rescue her – she’ll sort it out herself.

6331

It’s a cheap trick too often used on female characters. It’s not well-received largely because it wasn’t necessary in the book.

6332

I was fidgeting pretty badly through that episode. Lot of tedious scenes; AGOT is essentially a string of scenes with two people in a room, talking, but the tete-a-tetes this week…

6333

Well that was a good one. Pretty much every scene had some weight to it and moved the plot along with little filler.

The scenes at the Wall were a nice contrast to the end of last week’s show: Gilly in peril of being raped but saved by an unexpected party; Sam being a hero and not backing down; Sam finally getting it on in a scene that was as gentle as last week’s was brutal.

There were some odd notes there – why the Hell did Jon leave without Ghost? If I were heading North of the Wall, the first thing I would pack is my giant direwolf. And Sam forsaking his vows… I dunno, not that big a thing but in the books he was always the most monkish of the warrior-criminal-monks.

I wonder if the whole trip to Bravos and Oldtown will happen with Sam? Last week I would have said no, but Aemon is dead and Thorne might be looking for an excuse to get Sam and Gilly the heck out of Dodge… partially for their own good.

The Winterfell stuff was painful to watch… as was appropriate. It’s nice to see Sansa trying to get out of her situation on her own, but it looks like it won’t be easy.

Stannis being asked to sacrifice his daughter… wow, great twist. I’m really looking forward to seeing how that plays out. I’m betting he succumbs to the temptation and that it leads to some interesting scenes with Davos.

And finally we get a good scene with the Sand Snakes. I mean, Boobies are great and Bronn is great, so a conversation between Bronn and Boobies was going to be good no matter what, but for whatever reason this one worked out well. I really liked the eye-rolling expressions of the more-martial sisters as whats-her-name tormented poor Bronn. And I have to say, I fully expected our favorite sell-sword to die. And now we know that there is an antidote to the poison that killed Joffrey; I wonder why we needed to know that?

Probably the only false-note in the episode was the Gladiator rip-off in Meereen. I have to imagine that the whole thing was meant as an homage to Ridley Scott because EVERYTHING seemed to be the same as the “Are you not entertained?” sequence - the placement of actors, the sets, the pre-battle speech, the camera-angles, and then the helmet-reveal from later in the film.

I’m not sure if I cared for it, but I’m certain that Jorah’s badass roaming through the grounds effortlessly disabling everyone without killing them was silly. Jorah is a trained warrior, and these slaves are just thugs… but still. We’ve never really seen Mormont depicted as an unstoppable killing machine before, and coming on the heels of Barriston getting killed by lesser thugs just recently seems very weird.

At least Tyrion is in Meereen and has met Dany. We’ve successfully skipped 90% of the crap parts of his arc in Books 4/5. Bravo.

Finally, the Kings Landing stuff was almost universally great. Olenna and the High Sparrow was well-done. Tommen expressing his impotent rage was good to see. And of course seeing the beginning of Cersei’s downfall was fun.

6334

I liked this episode a lot, but it reminded me of the one problem I have with GOT. Four episodes of slow plot, then around the 6th it starts coming clear, and then ends four episodes later. I really wish it was a longer season.

The sand snakes and Bronn scene was great. I don’t know if my mind was clouded by boobies, but it’s the first scene with the Terror Triplets that didn’t feel forced.

I don’t think the Jorah scene was as bad as Barristan. Those guys were just mooks. Any scene with Tyrion in it is pure gold.

I loved how the High Sept merrily lead Cersei down that path.

6335

I don’t think it’s the same poison - Tears of Lys is supposed to be fast-acting (as we saw at Joffrey’s wedding). If it had been the same poison, I think Bronn would have been dead between being arrested and stuck in the jail. The poison Tyene used was slow-acting (“lingering death” I think she called it?)

Also, I don’t think Mormont being able to disable a bunch of thugs Batman-style, to gain Dany’s attention, was that much of a stretch. He is a formidable warrior, we know this because he did kill a Bloodrider (top Dothraki warriors, analogue of the Kingsguard) in single combat, and he was one of the small party (him Grey Worm and Daario) who got into Meereen and opened the gates.

Great episode again (I really enjoyed the last one too). Apart from Bronn/Sand Snakes (which was just sheer gratuitous fun) nearly every scene had some function in moving things forward.

Interesting to see the Queen of Thorns at a loss. The challenge to Stannis’ ambition from Melisandre was emotionally powerful. Tyrion beating up the slaver, very cool. Cersei and Tommen - I bet you everyone felt some twinge of sympathy for Cersei at that point. Just great little scenes all the way through. Even Ghost coming in and saving Sam’s bacon at the last minute, while ridiculously coincidental, was just so cool it’s forgiveable.

And what a satisfying ending :)

Ah, so many shades of grey! (Well, apart from Ramsay, who’s about as close to black as you can get.)

6336

I had a hard time watching the first quarter of this episode because everything was so dark (visually, I mean). I liked the scenes, I just could barely follow what was going on. I get that everything is wintery-dark at the Wall and Winterfell, so can they turn up the contrast already?

Sam choosing to get it on with Gilly right after getting his ass kicked rang a bit false, but most everything else this week worked for me. Especially the bit with Stannis and the Red Witch, been waiting for her to get around to asking for the daughter to work some more blood magic. And of course we’re all glad to see Cersei finally on the path to getting hers.

6337

I still think this episode is slow but it has definitely picked up Steam. Love how Dany is reunited with her knight. She was so eager when he saw him fighting the thugs, it’s almost like she knew it’s Mormont. But I find it unnatural that she would then asked for him to get out. What’s with her?

It’s also brilliant that Littlefinger is behind the boy toy thing although I wonder what he could do to Lancel to bring him to confess. Sure, the Loras playmate was under his payroll but surely Lancel is not. If that’s the case, how could Littlefinger be so sure Lancel will sing?

Great episode overall!

6338

They’ve gone out of their way a couple of times to show Lancel as a “true believer”, so I figure he was pretty close anyway. Maybe this was just a matter of him needing a small push to erase the last bit of his loyalty to his family, and it didn’t matter much who gave that push.

6339

Just a minor correction. The Tears of Lys was the poison used to kill Jon Arryn that set the whole series into motion. Joffrey was killed by something called “The Strangler”. The Mountain was poisoned by some sort of manticore venom. The poison used in last night’s episode was something else. It seems like kind of an idiotic poison to use on a weapon, because it isn’t going to give you much of an advantage in combat unless it takes effect almost immediately. But whatever.

After Loras was convicted of homosexuality based on the evidence that his squire knew where his birthmark was (something 100% of all squires would know about the knight they worked for, dressing and undressing them is part of the job), I realized we weren’t going to be mired down by anything like remote plausibility this season. Not worth over-thinking it.

6340

Thanks for the correction, boy am I rusty on my knowledge of the poisons of the world of the saga :)

It’s funny re. Tyene’s poison, it’s almost like, she has the antidote on her just in case she ever has second thoughts about whoever she’s attacked. (Fucking and fighting, fighting and fucking :) )