I think it’s more of a matter of Davos being a little weak and hoping against hope that his king wouldn’t actually do it. He was saying goodbye, but not in any conscious way.
People lie to themselves all the time. I think if Davos had actually gotten 100% confirmed “Hey, I’m going to sacrifice Shireen to the fire god” I think he would’ve absconded with her. Since he only had a suspicion, I think he buried it.
jg93
6522
Totally concur with Telefrog.
For what it’s worth, it’s not just fantasy. It’s mythology. The Trojan war was arguably won because Agamemnon let his daughter be sacrificed when the Greek fleet was becalmed.
-Tom
In another show, Shireen would be alive – but GoT isn’t that show. It’s depicting a fictional world, yes, but one that is grounded in a very human reality. Life is often tragic, and people will do the most awful things. GoT doesn’t shrink from that, and that’s in so many ways why the show is so powerful – and indeed relevant. It doesn’t sugarcoat much.
How many modern-day families sacrifice their children when they believe their god will cure that child’s ills?
rowe33
6527
There’s a difference in believing that their god will save their child and tying your daughter to a stake and watching/listening to her burn. Stannis has been driven insane by his quest to become the true King, aided by his obsessive devotion to his rigid code of law and Melisandre’s heavy influence. There’s no way a sane person can do that.
I’d also counter that unlike people who think their god will save their child, Stannis has actually seen results from his faith. The last blood sacrifice – just a few drops of blood – brought about the end of Balon Greyjoy, Robb Stark, and Joffrey. Plus, the whatever-it-was that came out Melisandre’s womb killed his brother. I can easily see Stannis thinking a sacrifice of this level will make his conquests that much easier.
rowe33
6529
Yeah, sure the Red God has true power & all, but Stannis has ZERO interest in saving his child. He’s willingly killing her. It doesn’t really relate to the folks that withhold medical care because they think their kid will be saved without it. I hope Davos abandons the madman and Stannis comes to an absolutely horrible end. Flaying would be great but seems unlikely with the blood boost.
I don’t think Stannis has zero interest in saving his child, he has 100% interest in gaining the throne, there’s a difference. In the same way Jon has to remain faithful to his oath, and turned down Stannis’ obviously superior offer, Stannis is likewise obligated to pursue the throne. That kid who works for Jon makes it sound like Jon chose to befriend the hated wildings but that’s wrong. There was no choice. When it’s “band together” or “everyone dies” is that really a choice?
Stannis was facing the same thing. Sacrifice one or give up on being king which will result in all of them dying one way or another there in the north. It’s an ugly and painful thing to do but given who he is and his situation there was no choice.
For what it’s worth, it’s not just fantasy. It’s mythology. The Trojan war was arguably won because Agamemnon let his daughter be sacrificed when the Greek fleet was becalmed.
If only there were some myth that people from Abrahamic faiths could relate to about being willing to sacrifice your child to a god because you think it’s what he wants you to do.
Abraham’s action was a gesture representing faith, and it was furthermore called off at the last moment. “Psyche!” said God. The parable is about trusting the will of God and it’s skewed as a terrible but ultimately positive thing.
But Agamemnon sacrificing Iphigenia is a much more dispassionate part of the mythology. And it’s a direct correlation to what Stannis did. An invasion is stalled, an oracle assures the king the sacrifice of his daughter will get him out of that jam, and the king goes through with it. In The Iliad, it got the Greek fleet to Troy. We’ll see if Stannis’ sacrifice pays off.
But I don’t see the story of Abraham and Isaac as similar in terms of theme or tone. But if your point is that mythology/religion is full of parents sacrificing children, well, yeah. In that case, I don’t know why you wouldn’t just go full on New Testament with your parallel. :)
-Tom
This, again, is one of the reasons I never understood the Stannis hysteria on ASOIAF forums and amongst many fans. I’m not at all surprised that Shireen’s fate is GRRM’s doing, precisely because towards the end of the books we have, Davos is clearly beginning to have conscious doubts about Stannis.
Again, this is GRRM’s subverting a trope. The way Davos is introduced he’s clearly meant as a moral compass. Normally, when a moral compass in a book targets someone as good, you’re meant to latch onto that person as being good - that’s your cue to trust that person through the book. GRRM is denying that comfort.
Stannis clearly has his good aspects. In some ways he would make a decent enough king, and Davos has respected and trusted him as an upright man; but that respect and trust is not absolute and unconditional, it’s not just a book trope, it depends on Stannis’ behaviour, and even as we are introduced to Davos, we see some discomfort creeping into his mind because of … what else, but burning people alive!
Stannis has been burning people alive all through the story, but now that he burns his own daughter alive, suddenly everyone loses their miiiiiinds.
Stannis has been in thrall to an acolyte of a god who demands people be burned alive - and we’re supposed to trust his judgement?
I must admit to some degree of schadenfreude. I argued against Stannis-overenthusiasm on the ASAOIAF forums several times, but the hive mind there was very strong. I’m just a wee bit glad to see them get their comeuppance :)
GRRM might actually go the whole way and have Davos ultimately fail as a moral compass and just meekly go along with Stannis.
“When Drogon arrived, circling chaotically like an Uber car in Queens, he was borne on the winds of exhilaration that only this show can generate.”
— Alan
Perhaps I’m just more of a forgiving bent, but I don’t watch shows just to hate on them or pick apart perceived differences between texts. So when the show demonstrates that the Unsullied fall prey in unstructured urban fighting, I see what that information adds, rather than detracts. So the Unsullied are excellent on a battlefield, but suffer as a city watch. Therefore, take them on the road, already. Don’t use a hammer to pull up screws.
The vast numbers of SoHarpies in the arena, plus the significant amount of coordination that such an attack would require, plus the brazenness of attacking the Queen during the Superbowl-- all that means that Mereen is truly lost to Dany. There are too many rebels, she has no intelligence apparatus at all, and the whole populace has seen her bodily threatened, her chief city ally slain, and her forced to flee by Drogon Ex Machina. She cannot govern in the East. Her only path to power is by conquest in a land where trusted advisors know the people.
I’m with you. I also feel that the Harpies are a cool looking nemesis and I won’t give more than a passing thought to the logistics of the masks because it is a Tv show. It’s nice to have some decent tension in Danerys’ storyline for a change.
holy shit, someone else saw it too.
How they smuggled them in? If you want to rationalize it, imagine that stadium security was in on the attack.
There is also the sacrifice of Tului to save Ogedei Khan’s life back in the 13th century. The invasion of China was halted due to the Khan being overcome with an illness brought on by Chinese earth spirits. Ogedei was on his deathbed and the Mongol shamans were trying to find anything that would work to satisfy the vengeful Chinese spirits. They offered up many things, including land, wealth and animals, but nothing had an effect. They then asked the spirits if sacrificing a royal family member would satisfy them and spare the Khan’s life. After asking the question, Ogedei stirred and improved. They took it as a sign that a royal sacrifice must be made. In this case it was a willing victim, as Tului (Ogedei’s brother) supposedly volunteered to be sacrificed to save his Khan’s life. Tului consumed a poisoned drink and Ogedei recovered soon after. Ogedei Khan went on to live almost another decade before succumbing to (likely) alcohol-related illness.
They were probably taped under the seats, just like on Oprah.
— Alan
