The plan to capture a wight or zombie or whatever from beyond the hall is stupid and lame.
Why do they need to convince Cersei that the army of the dead is real? You only need to convince Dany. She has the largest and most capable army and most importantly, she has the three dragons. Cersei’s force was just incinerated. Lannister support may have meant something while they still had an army worth mentioning. They don’t anymore.
So why exactly is convincing the southron lords important? Highgarden has been destroyed. Dorne has been decapitated. Everyone important in House Frey has died. There isn’t any leadership or army or size in King’s Landing or south of there. So, what does convincing Cersei actually gain you?
And why is Jon going North without Ghost? Sloppy. Yeah, I know, they are going straight from Dragonstone to Eastwatch and Ghost isn’t at Dragonstone and they can’t stop at Winterfell and pick him up. Leaving Winterfell without Ghost just irks me.
Why does Gendry not mention that he spent a long time with Arya? He spent a lot more with Arrya than he did with Ned Stark.
I’ll be surprised if this plan to capture a zombie from beyond the wall is actually part of GRRM’s notes.
Somehow this season ends with a zombie dragon breathing blue fire as the final shot, possibly being ridden by the Night King. It just seems sort of inevitable, right?
Other than that seeming almost so obvious and awesome that they have to do it, my main take-away from tonight is that it’s really all coming to an end. When Jorah left to get his greyscale cured I thought, “well, no way this is the last time they see each other” and when he left tonight I thought, “well, there’s a considerable chance they don’t see each other again.” Something about the episode in general left me feeling that the end of the series is really nigh. Which obviously it has had the end in sight for some time, but after reading that first book 20 years ago, it seems almost inconceivable to live in a world where Song of Ice and Fire is something I definitely know the ending to.
Why would Sam pay attention whom a long dead Targaryen prince married? He knows nothing…about Jon’s connection, at least. Even if Lyanna’s name had been mentioned, that wouldn’t have meant much to him.
Actually, I liked the Winterfell plot pieces. It is somewhat separated from the rest of the show, plotwise, but it shows that you can’t count Littlefinger out, not yet. Of course, Bran could react at any time, but I hope that the show resolve the situation well, not just by some deus ex machina.
Well sure … in 2 + 6 episodes (Season 8.) So there is still plenty of time for Jorah to get back. Even for GRRM, if he were writing all of this or pushing his direction in any way, wouldn’t be so cruel as to give them a reunion, then kill him off in an episode.
I think.
I enjoyed tonight, count me as nearly as absent minded as Sam, as I didn’t hear what Gilly said and didn’t take any significance from it until my GF nearly screamed and rewound that part. Then again, a fan drop like that at this point really doesn’t mean much. The entire fate of Westeros is in play here. Similar to Cersei on the throne, what does it matter who is, “rightful heir,” if there isn’t a throne there in the first place. My guess is that book will sit, without significance, until Jon Snow is crowned king anyway, be it with or without Dany.
EDIT: Another thought about Jorah, he’s still got puppy dog eyes for Dany in a May-December romance kinda way. Either he comes out of this understanding that Jon would be best for her, or he dies, paving the way for Jon to wed her.
If anything, all the past battles and wars should have shown us a lesson: who is the rightful heir means shit. The throne will be taken by the one who is best at taking it and then maintaining it, with a mix of military might, diplomatic might, good public relations, etc.
You can’t just go around waving your dragon in someone’s face all the time. Some people just don’t like dragons in their face. She got really lucky that Jon liked it, so now they are all set to date.
I agree with this… Cersei’s a nut. She’s just gonna fuck everyone over. Going on this multi-week (Month?) trek to get a zombie to convince her is pointless.
There was a brief moment when Jaime saw it, followed by him drawn in to kiss her. He knows he’s in bed with crazy. Now he needs someone to keep at him on how dangerous that really is. Someone like … a brother perhaps.
So did book readers already suspect or know that Jon wasn’t just a Targaryen, but apparently a legitimate one and the rightful heir over Dany? Or is that an entirely new development?
It was in the show too, if you recall, although briefly. But then the discussion between Sam and his wife is what suggested that Jon was actually in the line for the throne.
Rhaegar and Lyanna fell in love, Rhaegar got his marriage to whoever anulled, and then married Lyanna. She gave birth to Jon right before she died, which is where Ned got him, then Ned raised him as his bastard.
I phrased my question weirdly. We knew from last season who Jon’s parents were, but at that point still believed he was a bastard, right (just not the bastard most people thought)?
I was trying to ask if last night’s revelation was the first time the legitimacy of this lineage was revealed, in the books or otherwise.
I think there was debate in the fandom over whether or not he was a rightful heir or just the result of Rhaegar’s tryst with Lyanna. The revelation that Rhaegar secretly had his marriage with Elia Martell annulled before he married Lyanna is a pretty big deal. The fact that it was all actually recorded by High Septon Maynard is nuts.
Yes. As above, some fans theorized it, but the majority believed Jon was illegitimate.
Prince Rhaegar was married to Elia Martell of Dorne, sealing an alliance between the crown and Dorne after some kind of rebellion or something if I remember correctly. They had a couple of kids together already, but then at a tournament Rhaegar met Lyanna Stark and proclaimed her the “Queen of Love and Beauty” for the tournament, which was pretty scandalous given that he was married and she was betrothed (to Robert Baratheon). This kicked off a “secret” romance between Rhaegar and Lyanna, culminating in Rhaegar supposedly “abducting” Lyanna and everyone in the North (Robert, Ned, etc.) thinking he had kidnapped and raped her. In truth, they had run away together and Lyanna became pregnant with Rhaegar’s child.
When Robert’s Rebellion began, Rhaegar moved the then very pregnant Lyanna to the Tower of Joy for safe-keeping and set Ser Arthur Dayne and company to guard her there. While Robert was killing Rhaegar at the deciding battle of the rebellion, Ned and his bannermen rode to the Tower of Joy, confronted Dayne and his men, and the only survivors of the resulting battle were Ned and his bannerman, Howland Reed (Jojen and Meera’s father). They discovered Lyanna in the tower, and she had just given birth to Jon Snow, Rhaegar’s son. Lyanna whispered something to Ned prior to passing, and made him swear to protect Jon. It was assumed that she simply told Ned she loved Rhaegar, confirming that it was mutual and not a kidnapping…(and that is where the books sit as of right now)
…but now with the revelation from the TV series that the High Septon granted Rhaegar an annulment to Elia Martell (who died along with both her children in Robert’s Rebellion) and remarried Rhaegar to another women, the implication is that at the time of Jon Snow’s birth Rhaegar and Lyanna were legally married, making Jon Snow heir to the Iron Throne. So THAT may be what Lyanna whispered to Ned, and the terrible secret that Ned had to keep all those years. If anyone found out that Jon was not just a Targaryen, but KING, he’d never have survived a day in Westeros after Robert’s Rebellion.
This complicates matters immensely for Dany. Her claim to the throne if Westeros is now second to Jon’s, and yet thus far she’s done FAR more to actually deserve the throne than Jon. Jon also seems to want no part of being King of anything really, having accepted the title of King in the North out of necessity to make it easier to rally everyone to battle the Night King. I suspect this means a very bad end for one of the two, most likely Jon since he’s already died once and doesn’t want to be king. Someone will need to make the ultimate sacrifice to defeat the Night King, and they’re setting Jon up to be that someone.
I agree with everything you just said, but only if you flip it with Dany being the sacrifice. As things started, so shall they end, from the Starks perspective, with a (part-)Stark gaining the throne.
Dany has always been a wild ride that drew love from fans, but one that subsequently has no invested ending. Dany takes the throne because … why? Because she’s been gone so long that she needs it? Because she didn’t have her home? (She does now.)
Jon has done a lot to reunite the people towards a goal. Give him a victory in the north, and reluctant or not, he will be the champion of Westeros.
Oh, and yes, the entire plan to capture a wight, transport it back to King’s Landing, and show Cersei is fucking ridiculous. That can not be a GRRM plot point, it has to be the show. Forget the logistical nightmare such a plan entails and consider only that, even if they succeed, Cersei is just going to look at it and say “big deal, Qyburn here did the same thing with The Mountain” or “it’s just a trick”. Everyone on Dany’s council knows exactly how batshit nuts Cersei is now, especially Tyrion, so why they would think this is a feasible idea versus just pressing the advantage while they have it…stupid.
Here’s a better idea. Capture a bunch of wights, put them in a big cage, have Drogon fly them in low over the city, and drop the cage into the Red Keep. Have fun with these guys Cersei!!!
This was exactly my first thought as well. Her bodyguard is an undead giant! She already knows the dead can be raised to serve. I guess Dany, Jon, and friends don’t know that, but their plan is dumb anyway.
Also, in the books, didn’t someone try to bring an undead hand down to King’s Landing?
I agree, but they have to set up the totally forseeable conflict that puts an end to Cersei. Of course she will “agree” to an armistice and then at a terrible time betray everyone, leading to Jaime having to kill her. At least one other prominent character will need to die as part of that. Maybe Tyrion?
The Mountain will need to play a role, since he’s just been standing around menacingly for several seasons. Maybe he and The Hound will face off.
