That has bothered me whenever a named character is nirth of the wall. Just plan stupid and major loss of plausibility. You can show their face and still wear fuzzy hats…
…and dont get me started on barely anyone wearing helms in battle or sparring with real weapons and no armor/shields. Just lazy writing/directing and dummm.
This episod was the epidome of laugable plausibility. Travel times, Benjin, whatever was going on with the undead vs the defenders. Bleeah
But I am not a show apologist. I was talking about some particular points which are so easily explainable that whinging about them doesn’t make sense. For example, people could talk about how the scene between Jon and Jorah shouldn’t have happened at that point but on the travel to Eastwatch. Or how finding one wight that wasn’t created by the killed white walker was too convenient. But, no, they are talking about the fucking chains and how you can find them (or not) in the thousands of years of history of the huge magical world beyond the Wall, with giants and probably many contacts with all other civilizations. (I’m not talking about you, the Internet is full of these questions.) Totally ridiculous.
I have the same set of chains at my house, but you don’t see me dragging them with me to work every day just in case I need 'em. Those things are heavy, and when was the last time I actually needed a set of giant boat anchor chains?
This one is easy. Everyone that watches movies or TV is aware that conversations are always unrealistically held for filmed scenes. Things people would say right away or during the start of a journey are necessarily delayed until convenient for the filming schedule. It’s like when someone says, “Hurry! There’s no time to explain!” then the next scene is a car screeching to a stop and the detectives jumping out of the barely stopped vehicle. We know realistically that there was plenty of “time to explain” during the car ride but we make allowances for dramatic editing.
This kind of thing falls apart when the missing off-camera conversations are crucial to the plot. For example, apparently Jon wasn’t sending any progress messages to Winterfell when he was on Dragonstone. You’d think he’d at least send a raven to announce that he’d successfully negotiated for the dragonglass. Arya and Sansa are apparently not having any conversations that we haven’t seen on the show. Why not? Are they just walking around Winterfell not speaking to each other? At this point in their relationship, sure, they seem to hate each other. But early on when they first reunited? They didn’t talk? Commiserate? Catch up on events? It’s kind of ridiculous.
But how do you know how much time has passed between Vyserion’s death and his reanimation? Those who keep complaining about the origin of the chains pretend they know. But you’ll notice that the lake is frozen again in the last scene, and that scene comes after Jon lying in bed (not a proof per se, but a good indication nonetheless). Who knows how many days passed?
The show is guilty of timeline issues, but that is a problem of another kind.
You are right in a general sense, but I wasn’t talking about conversation that didn’t take place on-camera, but about one that did. And in that moment, it was like the show was checking some boxes of what needed to be said. Actually, in some previous version of the script, that scene between Jon and Jorah was supposed to happen on the ship or even in Dragonstone before the journey, I can’t recall exactly where. That was a much better context, in my opinion.
But it is so small a “problem” that is not worthy of much discussion (still, worthier than the chains ;) )
Given how fast everyone can travel now due to plot-enabled teleportation, they better have resurrected Vyserion like…right away. Because if they wait a day or two, the show might be over. Or maybe it’s been 20 years. Hard to say.
Doesn’t make the plot this season less
Removing picture for possible spoiler, sorry.
Wait, why is Tyrion there? :)
So is Viserion the legendary Ice Dragon now? Or is that going to show up in the series finale as some kind of Deus Ex Machina?
I have suspicions, but I didn’t read books very carefully. Should I delete?
No, I’m just kidding. There is a theory about Tyrion being a secret Targaryen, and many fans believe in that, but I am not buying it, for now. That’s why I’ve said that. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
haha ok. I’m not entirely sure it’s real or not. There isn’t anywhere the overwhelming number of clues there are as for Jon Snow. The only one I can remember for Tyrion is around season 5/6 when he goes see the chained dragons and doesn’t get eaten. You could say it was just showing his bravery and curiosity, but it could also be a clue and a wink.
The episode director, Alan Taylor, admits the timing in the episode was fudged a bit.
“We were aware that timing was getting a little hazy,” Taylor told Variety. “We’ve got Gendry running back, ravens flying a certain distance, dragons having to fly back a certain distance…In terms of the emotional experience, [Jon and company] sort of spent one dark night on the island in terms of storytelling moments. We tried to hedge it a little bit with the eternal twilight up there north of The Wall. I think there was some effort to fudge the timeline a little bit by not declaring exactly how long we were there. I think that worked for some people, for other people it didn’t. They seemed to be very concerned about how fast a raven can fly but there’s a thing called plausible impossibilities, which is what you try to achieve, rather than impossible plausibilities. So I think we were straining plausibility a little bit, but I hope the story’s momentum carries over some of that stuff.”
USA Today of all places brings up an excellent point:
The last stand of the Magnificent Seven (Six) happened close enough to the Wall that Gendry was able to run back. Gendry could not have run for days, so we’re talking about a distance a man could run, through winter conditions, in a single day.
Forget all the other stuff about ravens and dragons and finding the same spot…and focus just on the distance Gendry ran. When everyone else arrives back at Eastwatch by dragon uber, they KNOW the Night King and his army are LESS THAN ONE DAY’S DISTANCE from the Wall. Now granted, the undead don’t run, but they also don’t eat, sleep or crap, so they could plod the same distance Gendry ran in twice the time it took him at most. So then when Jon shows up on BenJen’s horse, they characters at Eastwatch know the Night King is only 24 hours or so from reaching the Wall.
So why the fuck would you load everyone on a ship and head to King’s Landing? Why would you undertake a journey of DAYS, a journey that could end with everyone involved dead or imprisoned, when you KNEW the Night King was going to assault the Wall literally at any moment? The characters don’t know that he’s stopped to go find giant chains and resurrect the dragon. To them he is only a few miles away with his entire army.
The decision makes zero sense. Even if they can sail to King’s Landing in a couple of days, then talk to Cersei and somehow convince her to support the cause, they then have to consolidate forces and march armies all the way to the Wall, which would take weeks. Meanwhile, the Night King is just going to politely wait on the other side of the Wall?
Because the undead can’t breach the Wall. That’s the whole point of the Wall. They don’t know about the dracolich.
I think the finale is going to be the wights melting the wall with dragonfire.
The undead army moves REALLY slowly! Plot hole solved.
Night King is just Bran trolling everyone for the lols. It explains why he takes so long between spear shots. He knows he wins in the end.
This image shows the path the Night King (red line) has traveled versus Jon’s travels (green line) since Hardhome.
Obviously, there’s something more than just distance traveled involved.
[quote=“Wallapuctus, post:8898, topic:48713, full:true”]
Because the undead can’t breach the Wall. That’s the whole point of the Wall. [/quote]
If that’s what everyone believes then why bother with anything Jon Snow is doing? If they believe the wall is an impenetrable barrier, then the Night’s Watch should be all they need to defend it. All this dragonglass and dragons and more men stuff is pointless. Westeros doesn’t need anything North of the Wall, so seal up the gateways and thumb your noses at the Night King for all eternity.
Even if Jon thinks the wall will hold the Night King back for a time, he wouldn’t leave Eastwatch, he’d want to be in charge of the defense. They are out of time, the decision they’re making is stupid given the information they possess.