Game of Thrones (HBO)


#8984

So gross, I assume? I haven’t read the books, but in this world, when they find out are they going to be mortified or is it no big deal?

Of course this is made even more awkward by the realization that John is the true successor to the throne after all.


#8985

Same here. That was really well done. From the proceedings at Winterfell, to the revelations about Jon by Sam and Bran, to the Dragon arena drama. All excellent drama on a human level. And then finally, that last scene to make you think “Oh shit, they’re all fucked”.


#8986

I think the impact of incest isn’t that big in Westeros. The place was ruled by the Targaryens, who practiced it for centuries. Both Dany and Jon belong to that family so in that regard it’s even more par for the course.

The main reason why Jaime and Cersei hid their involvement with one another was because she cuckolded Robert, bearing none of his children. The whole incest part was secondary to that and so far everyone who knows about it just shrugs whenever it comes up.


#8987

By Westeros standards, it’s barely incest.


#8988

The Arya and Sansa show was still dumb. Great payoff that everyone was looking forward to for 7 seasons, but the long con was stupid. You could’ve snatched him up at any time and executed him or just stabbed him in a hallway. Nope. We get a full season of skulking and deception because the showrunners had to drag out that plot to fill time.

And I love that I was right about Cersei. She’s crazy. There’s no chance of a truce with her. The only surprising thing was that she let Jaime go.


#8989

But here’s the part I don’t get:

Cersei seemingly gives an order to the Mountain to kill Jamie.
Mountain pulls out his sword.
Jaime says, “I don’t believe you” and walks away.

At that point, the Mountain had been told to kill him… Cersei didn’t say anything countering that order.

Why didn’t the Mountain kill him?

Is the Mountain psychically linked to Cercei at this point?


#8990

I have to say that I’m pretty tired of the Lannister money-Deus Ex Machina (deus ex currencia?) Even if it’s realistic, it feels like bad writing.

Also, I feel like the whole relationship with the Iron Bank is weird and dumb. You know the old saying about “You owe the bank $1000, the bank owns you, you owe the bank $1 million, you own the bank?” I feel like that’s where the Lannisters were before. They were so heavily in debt, the Iron Bank had no choice but to continue to chase that payoff.

Now that their earlier loans have been paid off, and the geopolitical situation is uncertain enough, that the Iron Bank would be insane to throw in with Cersei again. Their Westeros branch should be all “kthxbye, we got some deals in Essos that need attention”. Cersei even calls this out by highlighting the fact that their house is weakened since Tywin’s death.

There would also be a fantastic irony to the Lannister’s “We always repay our debts” to be their undoing.


#8991

I’d agree, except that everyone who has bet against Cersei thus far has ended up fucked.


#8992

So has everyone who has bet on Cersei too.


#8993

Ha! I have to admit, some perverse part of me wants to see Cersei’s plan succeed. All the other armies defeat the undead, and Cersei sweeps up the remains and takes control of the 7 kingdoms in the aftermath.


#8994

OK … so what was the deal with Arya and Sansa?

Option 1) They were playing Littlefinger the whole time, which means they staged all their interactions over the past couple of episodes, including behind a closed door when Arya threatened Sansa with a dagger. Were they confident that Littlefinger was lurking in the hallway, listening in? It just doesn’t make much sense in the way it was staged. Also, why all the elaborate shenanigans? If Bran brought them all up to speed at some point several episodes ago, why mess around? What did that accomplish? Just arrest him. Kill him. Whatever. It’s not like they got him to reveal his guilt to the other lords. And why send away Brienne?

Option 2) At some point in the late-game, perhaps after Littlefinger’s “I assume the worst” speech, they figured things out. Maybe they asked Bran “Hey, what’s up with Littlefinger?”. This is an awful option because it means their terrible interactions this season were genuine. Also, it means they went from Arya threatening to cut off Sansa’s face to having their “Sisters 4ever” moment up on the parapets not long after.

I liked where it ended up, and I thought that’s where they were heading when this all started, but it’s all just clumsy.


#8995

The Iron Bank guy said that Dany cost them a shitload of money when she torched Slaver’s Bay. There’s no money there for them anymore. Cersei is their best bet. That part seems really clear.


#8996

This is what I’ve been saying all along. It was either going to turn into a pointless ruse against Littlefinger, or it was genuine, making Arya the dumbest person on the planet. I guess the first option is better than the second, but it doesn’t stop it from being lame as heck.


#8997

They have mentioned twice this season, “I couldn’t have survived what you went through.” Too a certain degree, neither of them really did. They each become some weird, twisted extreme of their personalities.

I think if Sansa went through the worse case of Arya in Littlefinger’s game, I don’t think she really believed Arya would want to be Lady of Winterfell. There is nothing in Arya’s personality throughout the entire series that would make one think command is what she wants. Arya is that annoying little person that gets the job done, bitches about how management wants things done, but wants nothing to do with making the decisions.

I was actually expecting Littlefinger to be Arya in a mask.

I’m going with the latter. It has been clear all season Sansa wasn’t buying what Littlefinger was selling. As she so eloquently put it, she sold her out to the Boltons, which made Joffrey seem absolutely delightful by comparison. While I’m trying not to read too much into off-camera discussions, at some point the Vale people had to go “get a load of what this dude pulled.” I also think Bram doing the 'Chaos is a ladder" line was the story handling, “Bran knows everything and there will be a meeting.”


#8998

The deal with Arya and Sansa:

When they spoke in private (and Arya threatened Sansa with the dagger) at the end she reversed the dagger and gave it hilt first to Sansa. Sansa knows Arya is a faceless man, an assassin and had just provided her the perfect opportunity to kill her and take her face. Instead she reverses the dagger and gives it to Sansa, symbolizing (and cementing) her allegiance.
It was at that point Littlefingers schemes were undone. Everything else happened off camera though.


#8999

My take on this is that the Iron Bank is throwing in with the Golden Company. If Cersei doesn’t pay, the Iron Bank already has its “collectors” on the ground.


#9000

I’m just glad that the Golden Company is going to be introduced as a piece in the TV series, since it’s there in the books and already in Westeros.


#9001

I hope season 8 skips all the fighting and resumes 5 years later or so. Would be the ultimate troll after waiting another year or two to wrap this up.


#9002

“I can’t believe we survived that final battle with the Night King!”
“It was incredible!”
“Remember when the dragons…?”
“Gods, yes! Amazing! But then The Hound…”
“So good! He really redeemed himself, didn’t he?”
“Aye, but not all of us survived.”
“True. We honor the dead here, at our new capital city, Harrenhal!”
“HUZZZAH FOR JAIME! KING IN THE NORTH!”


#9003

Then episodes 8.2-8.6 are Bran telling the story of Dunk and Egg to a roomful of dragon-human hybrid children.