Game of Thrones (HBO)


It’s split damage dice, 6d10 frost and 6d10 bludgeoning. Don’t worry about the rules so much, the the DM handle that~


I expected frost breath, but blue flame was a nice surprise.

Amazing finale. I feel more sated by it than by most biggest hollywood blockbusters combined. They should put the last season in cinemas, my plasma is not enough.


Did you just get a television? :)


Aesthetics-wise, I think the CGI at the end was some of the best I’ve ever seen (barring Tin Wisdom’s point about CGI things riding on other CGI things never really looking quite kosher).

It had an apocalyptic, biblical quality reminiscent of the romantic artists of the “sublime” school (e.g. Caspar David Friedrich, early Turner, but particularly John Martin). Connected with this, it also felt like they had consciously gone for an aesthetic reminiscent of matte painting for the background. IOW it felt “real” in the dreamy way that matte painting used to feel real in the old movies.

Great finale though, very satisfying end to Baelish. (I think we can fill in some background in our minds re. Arya and Sansa conspiring because of the moment when Arya handed Sansa the dagger in their conversation, that’s more or less symbolic of the jig being up for Baelish. IOW, I think that convo was meant to represent some lingering bad feeling between Arya and Sansa, but Arya figuring out the truth and getting Sansa in on it.) And a good thing too, because pretty much all the “intrigue” aspect of the series has gone out the window by now, in the pell-mell rush to the finishing line, so he didn’t have a function any more.

Early part with the meeting, etc., and the mini get-togethers of characters who’d spent time together in the past - also very enjoyable. Aegon reveal we all knew about, but it was nice to have it all confirmed in a systematic way.

But what the fuck was that stuff coming out of the dragon? Was it so cold it was colder than the wall, or was it so hot it was blue/white hot and melting the wall? Or was the blue/white just sort of all-purpose “eldritch?” Inquiring minds want to know.


I’ve only seen 2 “epic” TV story arcs through to completion: Lost and Sons of Anarchy.*

Lost I enjoyed the ride up until the final season, but I didn’t like the final season at all. However, I really enjoyed playing the “what did mean” game with some friends every week. Near the end, when it became apparent it didn’t mean shit, I was disappointed, That said, the interaction with other fans and the theorizing was fun.

Sons of Anarchy had a better overall run. The only season I didn’t like was the one set in Ireland, but I had watched it on Netflix and just powered though it. The later seasons were very well done.

When Game of Thrones had the source material to work from, it was the best TV series I had ever seen. When they had to freelance the ending, it obviously had a lesser quality. It is still really good, and as with Lost I have fun making my rounds Monday morning to talk about the show. This season had a lot of “nudge-nudge, wink wink” moments, but I liked it over all. The entire series now feels like a writer has a 100k cap on his novel, and is at 80k words 50% in. I wish they went 9 seasons and slowed the pace down a little on this one. I’m expecting next season with 6 episodes to feel even more crashed together.

I do like this season they tied off a lot of the little plot lines. I have no idea what to expect next year since I would have placed money on them wrapping up the King’s Landing bit this year, and undead army next year.

*There is an asterisk for the US version of Life on Mars. It got cancelled during the first season and they showed us how it would have ended, but was so jarring I wished, as Tyrion said, they’d learn to lie a little and change the ending.


The Night King is actually Hank Hill, and he really just wants to introduce Westeros to the joy of propane and propane dragon accessories.


Sorry I wish I could be apart of y’all hipster haters but oh well…


And calling all of us “hipster haters” is a sure way to endear you to us.


WhollySchmidt was actually implying the opposite. TV has been so good lately, that it’s hard to fathom there isn’t something else you like. Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, Parks & Rec, Friday Night Lights, The Wire, The Sopranos, Chuck, and on and on. No matter what your preferences, there’s a lot of really great shows out there.


The Sansa-Arya-Baelish arc just irks me.

Baelish has been a master schemer throughout the whole series and then in this season he turns into a caricature of himself where he just leans on the wall for seven episodes waiting lamely to get discovered and be executed.

Why on earth should we believe that Sansa should be a good enough liar/player to fool Baelish who had been fooling people for decades? Baelish’s getting outwitted by someone like Sansa undermines what a devilish character he was supposed to be. Baelish’s purported goal to get Sansa to kill Arya – how does that help Baelish out at all? (more on that in a moment)

First, there just isn’t any reason for him to hang around in Winterfell after the Battle of the Bastards has been won. He brought the winning forces (the Vale) and is Lord Commander of the Vale. A partial reason might that he is obsessed with Sansa but he was obsessed with Catelyn too before her and was able to pull off a number of schemes despite not being in the same location all the time. There isn’t anything more he can accomplish in the North. Sansa and Arya plainly don’t trust him and Bran knows way too much for him. The Stark forces are decimated from the Battle of the Bastards. He needs to be somewhere else to hatch his next plot, he doesn’t have to tell anyone the truth about his destination. He could make up any kind of excuse to tell the Starks – I’m off to try to find allies in Dorne or Essos.

Second, the very moment that Bran drops that “chaos is a ladder” line on him he should have been out of Winterfell like he was on fire. He clearly recognized the importance of that line because it made him speechless. But, he did absolutely zero with the information. When did he get so stupid? He knew that no one was around when he had that conversation with Varys and even if they were then they were no friend of his if they are telling that to Bran.

Third, Baelish’s plan makes no sense. Suppose for a second that Sansa falls for Baelish’s manipulation and discretely has Arya pre-emptively murdered. How does that help Baelish? No one in the North is really loyal to Arya, they barely know her and in fact we haven’t seen a single Northerner even be happy that she has returned. If Arya disappears who in the North even notices?

On the other hand – suppose Arya kills Sansa? That really borks Baelish’s plan - a) he loves her in his creepy way and b) Arya as Lady of Winterfell is going to be much tougher to manipulate.

Baelish’s master plan to sow chaos made sense as it created opportunities for him to leapfrog up the ladder. Getting Sansa to kill her sister doesn’t do that.

The only plan that would have made sense to keep Baelish in Winterfell would be: to kill Bran. Bran’s sudden appearance and inside information sources are a huge threat to someone like Baelish. If Baelish didn’t run once he heard the “chaos is a ladder” line, his next move should have been to remove Bran from the board entirely.


I interpreted it as it’s been a long time since Tyrion has had sex and he is aching for it.


I am a TV junkie. Of those you listed I have seen all except Friday Night Lights.
I have also seen Twin Peaks, Leftovers, Lost, Quarry, Black Sails, The Knick, Horace and Pete, Fargo, True Detective…I could go on.

Game of Thrones is among the best. Compared to the rest however, it has the epic fantasy scope, visuals and battles of such production value that it rivals hollywood blockbusters. There are scenes in GoT I would like to capture and frame and put on my wall. So glad this show exists, and I hope Witcher show will be just as good or better.


I know, I know, me too. And it leads to thoughts like, “The writing has gone down the tubes since they stopped having GRRM’s actual writing, plotting and characterization to work from.”

Essentially, all the writing now seems like the shittier bits that they injected into the story in the first 3 seasons.

HOWEVER, we say that, but I wonder if any of us could have condensed the material any better? I mean, if the show had continued with the same density and detail, we’d be looking at another half a dozen seasons, somehow they had to compress everything down so that it could all be gotten over with as quickly as possible (because of aging actors, etc.) while still doing as much justice to the epic scale of what went before as possible. I think maybe they’re doing the best they can, which is probably better than most could do given the depth and complexity of the play set up by GRRM.

Or to put this another way, I bet you many of the alternative “better” plots and resolutions any of us could come up with, would take longer/be more expensive, etc., etc.

You can see the writers are aware of all this from the self-conscious way they deliberately had some of the “old” GoT feel in the first half of the episode, with the character interactions, it’s like they were apologetically saying, “Hey guys, we know this is the stuff that you really loved, and we know the writing’s getting shitty, but unfortunately we’ve got to get it over with ASAP, so here’s a reminder of what used to be great about the show, and then we’re going to give you a few major plot resolutions, perfunctorily handled, and some CGI.”

Basically, I’m torn between being a bit annoyed by the drop in the writing quality, but still enjoying the lavish scale and spectacle, and still wanting to see it through to the end because these are characters we’ve lived with and grown to love over the years.


I think that the second option is the true one. I still don’t understand everything that happened, and some things weren’t done in the best possible way, but I think that Sansa was genuinely scared during that game of faces. Arya wasn’t really threatening, she was just playing, and in the end, she gave Sansa the knife. “It’s your turn now.” And something happened off-screen, probably after the next scene with Littlefinger which triggered Sansa to go ask Bran for advice or help. Keep in mind that characters like Cercei and Littlefinger and Sansa didn’t have much contact with magic and didn’t truly believe in many things we, as the audience, were aware of.


I would agree with that. I think @WhollySchmidt would as well. I was just irritated that Jason was framing it as if Wholly was hating on this show when he was praising the rest of TV’s landscape. True Detective might not be for some people, Chuck might not be for other people, Stranger Things might just be nostalgic nonsense for some, Master of None might not be brilliant comedy for others, Better Call Saul might be too slow and boring for others, that doesn’t mean they’re bad shows. Not every show can be everything for everyone. TV in general is amazing right now. You say that Game of Thrones has production values that rival the best Hollywood movies at times, and that’s true. Honestly, to me it’s more impressive when shows on a lower budget produce amazing television despite their lower budget.


I think the Sansa Arya plot was poorly executed, but we got enough for it to make sense, especially in the “Think of the worst thing it could be” convo between Sansa and Baelish. Baelish led Sansa down a path that she knew was false, because Arya could’ve done it already, if she really wanted it.

But it’s a bit “and then stuff happened” to go from that conversation into “And you did this, and that, and that other thing too that nobody could’ve known about”, there’s trusting the audience to fill in the gaps, but I wouldn’t quite call this a gap, showing Sansa speaking to her brother would’ve helped…


Which scene in the episode would you have cut in order to include this extra scene?


A few seconds of the “John is actually the rightful king / look at the sexy naked people” to show Sansa entering her brother’s room would be enough for me, don’t show the conversation, just imply there was one after she realized what Littlefinger was trying to do.


I’m glad they didn’t go Deux Ex Bran.

I prefer to think that Sansa reached her decision on her own, per my previous post. Sansa doing it on her own, based on Baelish’s own “little game” makes it ironic.


But they did go Deus Ex Bran since Sansa accused Baelish of things she couldn’t know. It’s one thing for her to realize what Littlefinger was trying to do, another for her to go “This MF’r helped kill my father, he’s to blame for all the misery, he’s gonna die”.

So, Bran told her about those things is the only thing that makes sense, no?