But anyway, that’s not why. Nobody is being overly critical because they just want to stick it to “the geeks.” The flaws are there. If you like the show anyway, fine; I’ve already said I’m going to stick with it to see if it gets better, so I obviously don’t hate it. But hand-waving away every criticism as though it’s part of some conspiratorial smokescreen is pretty silly.
Athryn
1722
Like I said before, if it’s really as flawed as you say, then why have the critics been overwhelmingly positive about the series? I can understand you not liking it, maybe it’s just not for you.
I didn’t like the Sopranos, even though the critics adored it. I just didn’t care for it. You don’t have to justify your dislike, just don’t like it. :)
The critic from Vanity Fair linked a page back doesn’t seem to adore it.
shrug
Anyway, I’m happy to just not like it. Like I said above, the things that drag it down for me don’t bother everyone, and that’s cool.
peterb
1725
Athryn, I really like you, but I really hate this argument.
This is a response to something said in the other thread, but it veers close to spoilers so I will say it here.
The notion of cutting the Dany story us incredibly stupid. Anyone who knows the books (and I’d assume anyone using the nickname Dany does) should understand this and stop acting as if it is a realistic or even useful idea.
Athryn
1727
Heh, that’s what I was thinking too. I can really understand why non-readers don’t get her story, it really does seem peripheral to the main narrative. I actually like her story more than most other people seem to.
sinnick
1728
I like her story a lot too, but I have a feeling that most TV watchers will find it unsatisfying. There have been a couple of scenes already between Robert and Ned where they discuss Daenerys and how they’re worried about her bringing an army to attack them. If I didn’t know the books, I would assume that this was foreshadowing for the end of the season. Not the end of a season which may or may not be filmed seven years from now.
peterb
1729
“Cutting” doesn’t necessarily mean “never show”, though. There is always, in movies and tv shows, the question on pacing. I think the argument is that the Danerys (i’m not even going to try to spell that right) story arc takes a long time to come to fruition, and maybe having it front-loaded with all these scenes that basically establish nothing more than “Here are some tits” is working to the detriment of the show’s ability to get some depth of characterization elsewhere.
You could allude to Danerys without spending 10 minutes on her per show. Or you could focus on her in a later show.
Blips
1730
I’m assuming you’re talking about me, when I said that cutting Dany from Season 1 would probably have been a good thing - for those that haven’t read the books at least.
Spoilers**
You don’t need an entire season to say:
Woman gets married, gets pregnant, brother dies, husband dies, now she has 3 dragons.
Much of her storyline in the first book could be covered at a later time once viewers are enjoying the show using some well executed flash backs. In the mean time (Season 1) the relevant and important aspects of her story could be hinted at through dialog of the small council and Eddard and Robert.
Sure, and completely overlook her transformation from terrified mouse to leader that makes up the core of her compassion.
Let’s argue for cutting Jaime. I mean, what does he even do in the first two books? Very little. What a waste of screen time.
Athryn
1733
They could just as easily cut out the wall stuff too!
The way they’re actually doing it, that’ll happen between two scenes seemingly 10 minutes apart.
Blips
1735
Like peterb said, just because something is cut doesn’t mean it can’t be shown at a later time. She could have made her transformation later when viewers new to the world had adjusted to Westeros.
And you guys don’t think it would feel disjointed to viewers to suddenly introduce a new faction into the overall story at a significantly later point in the series? The first book is so incredibly well structured I understand why the show’s producers and writers didn’t want to deviate like that.
Blips
1737
Because no other show has ever introduced new characters or places after the pilot…
I think that you would find the introduction of Dany at a later time to be abrupt simply because you have read the source material. Viewers new to the world would not be feel disjointed if the introduction and re-cap of her history was done properly - that is, if it could be done properly. This is obviously all hypothetical.
Which is not what you were arguing for.
bloo
1740
Were I an HBO decision maker/show producer, I would have tried a separate Dany story line, to air when the main show is off-season - alternating between the continents (with possible fewer for Dany). Essentially, Dany and her Dragons could have had their own books. There’s just two few connections between the plotlines, IMO.
