Loved the episode.
If the training sequence with Jon at Castle Black is indicative of how they’re approaching action scenes, I’m going to adore them all. No shaky cam, no fast cuts, and a great sense of impact and violence. Great stuff.
StGabe
1844
Erikson would handle this completely differently: Dany would be a book 3 or 4, a self-encapsulated story separate from the other books (but hinted at in prior books). Then that story would get folded back in around book 5 or 6. Mind you, this would piss off readers in a different way but I, at least, would prefer it.
I like Martin a lot, but this problem rears up all over the books. A story about Bran is just a little too bit removed from a story about Brienne which is way too removed from a story about Dany. As I read I find myself feeling tugged out of the story all the time. At least in the Malazan books the disparate stories get integrated by the end of each book.
The result is that I find myself disliking Dany, not because she’s a bad character, but because her chapters keep interrupting the flow of other stuff that’s more interesting at the time. To really do her justice I think she needs more focus.
I liked episode three, but not as much as the first two. Both of the previous episodes felt like they had a stronger narrative spine, whereas this episode jumped around a lot. I am girding myself for more of this though, knowing how this story is told.
The very first scene between Ned and Jaime was terrific for me, but very confusing for my wife (who hasn’t read the book). I had to pause the Tivo to explain the backstory to her, about how Jaime was in the Kingsguard, but betrayed the mad King, and what was going on with the mentions of Ned’s father and brother. Once she understood the history, she interpreted Jaime’s words as him trying to sidle up to the Starks for his own purposes, which I think is what they were going for.
Littlefinger’s relationship to Catelyn was also a little confusing for her, though less so. She correctly understands that he’s got his own agenda.
It’s been several years since I read the books, and I don’t remember Barristan Selmy other than his name. I did think that was supposed to be Tywin, and that maybe the show was changing things up. The fact that he and Jaime were wearing the same armor and the King saying “I’m surrounded by Lannisters” reinforced this misperception. I would not be surprised if many people made the same mistake.
Great to see James Cosmo as Mormont. I love that guy!
I agree with this. A handful of new characters which we’ll get to know better in the future, but it would have at least been nice to understand what their various roles were. I don’t think the show has even really explained what a Maester is yet, let alone what Varys, Littlefinger and Renly are all doing on the council.
I’m looking forward to episode four, which will presumably be the tournament. Very excited to see what Jaime and the Hound can do!
bloo
1846
I’ve never read any Erickson but that’s exactly my problem with Martin’s plotline spaghetti.
Tony_M
1847
Best episode by far. I felt it was the first time they started to let a scene play out (like the Syrio scene or Dany stopping the horde) rather than try to jam a whole bunch of exposition into the scene. Its very tough material to adapt for TV, but I think the less they try to include all the details and the more they just focus on the key moments, the better it will be.
Tony.
Hammet
1848
I honestly skip Dany’s chapters. If/when she ever starts to interact with ANY of the other main characters, I’ll read them then.
I find it interesting, and correct me if I am wrong, that all the people saying Dany should just be removed from the books and is boring are men.
I think Dany’s the main character of these books (along with Jon) and has the most interesting character arc of anyone so far besides Jamie. And Jamie gets a lot of major points mostly for going from “character you’re supposed to hate” to “character you end up rooting for.”
Watching her go from an abused, scared little girl that gets ordered around to a Queen that figures out how to wake and control dragons is just awesome. I anxiously await Dany chapters when I read these books. To have removed her and then introduced her later as this big dragon queen across the ocean would totally have taken away from the growth she achieves over the series as it stands now. She is, in my mind, the only person in a position of power who has come to realize what that means and wants to learn how to be better at it. Everyone else across the sea just fucks it up.
Hammet
1851
It’s dumb because …? Or just dumb because it’s dumb to fail being interested in the 300+ pages out of 4000 that has, so far, little or nothing to do with the other 3700? I read the Dany chapters in the first two books but halfway through Storm of Swords, they started to feel like a chore and not going anywhere that had any bearing on the other stories until far, far down the road. And because I read for enjoyment (or because I’m male, whatever) I just skipped them. That does not mean, at all, that I would want to edit them out. This is Martin’s work and he is more than entitled to take it where it pleases him. Also, a lot of people love that storyline and why would I want to remove anything they find enjoyable? Because I’m male? Or dumb?
The thing is, I don’t think the books are that great. They are remarkable achievements in many ways, but trying to make the reader care about so many characters is just more or less impossible. Several of the ones I’ve wanted to learn more about is completely absent (or dead) in Feast.
I absolutely admit that I “want to know what happens next” as much as the next guy (or gal, apparently) but I just got A Feast of Crows and had to re-read Storm of Swords to remember most of the characters. It’s been seven years since I read the first three. Apparently Dance with Dragons is not going to move time forward but will tell other stories that happen at the same time as those in Feast.
As someone noted, it’s been 11 years and 1000 pages since Martin published stories with Jon Snow or Tyrion as protagonists. As Dickens noted: “Make them laugh, make them cry, but most of all, make them wait.”
I had the exact same interaction with my wife – pausing the TiVo to explain about the Kingsguard after the scene with Jamie, and again to explain who the members of the Small Council were.
But to be fair, the books are structured the same way. Martin doesn’t really explain who Jamie is or why he’s called “The Kingslayer” in any one place… it’s kind of revealed in dribs and drabs throughout the first book. The same with Littlefinger’s relationship with Cat.
jg93
1855
Well, she probably is the single most important character in the books, and her chapters (especialy in aSoS,) are fucking excellent.
This is one reason I pretty much wish I’d skipped A Feast for Crows entirely. It killed my interest in the series. Where before we had a few chapters here and there that seemed like filler, we got an entire book of filler, Robert Jordan-style.
Tony_M
1857
Martin has taken forever to write his books, and I’m annoyed as the next guy, but please don’t compare him to Jordan. Martin writes well, and so people are annoyed they have to wait so long for the next book. Jordan has always been rubbish, people just got sucked in by cool fantasy ideas and so ignored the poor writing. Somewhere between 3-10 books in people start to realize just how bad Jordans writing is.
Tony
It’s not just the wait, though. I’m not annoyed because a Dance for Dragons took forever; I’m annoyed because I didn’t find much enjoyable about a Feast For Crows. It wasn’t Rand clipping his toenails, but it wasn’t interesting, either.
I don’t think we should jump to the man-woman-divide conclusion just yet. I’m a counterexample, for one: I love the Dany storyline, especially the stuff in book one.
My suspicion is that it’s more like this: we’ve all had the experience of being swept up in a story where we can’t stop turning the page. When a book “breaks” that flow with a new chapter about something else, it can be jarring at first and I think there may be an inclination to power through to get back to the thing you were enjoying. And because so much of the story in the first book focused on the Stark family members, and Dany was so far removed, I could see her getting short shrift.
This is my experience as well. I like her story now, initially I didn’t want another POV because I wanted to find out more about the Starks.
But I won’t go and say Hammet is dumb though for skipping them. It might be shortsighted and a pivotal moment will come where her story converges with everyone elses and he may be left going WTF? but I can see why he does it. I read for entertainment too, and if there are chapters or people’s stories that I don’t care for I would skip them too. I haven’t done so in any of GRRM’s work, but I have with the Malazan series. I just got exhausted with all the new characters being introduced book after book and finally said the hell with this. (Specifically some of the new characters in Dust of Dreams). Yeah, I know I might regret this, but the constant influx of new guys was hampering my enjoyment of the series. If I didn’t skip those PoVs I would have probably stopped reading all together. So let the man read in peace, he can read whatever the hell he wants.
