Gamers are already drawing battle lines over the Battlefield V trailer

No, they can’t, because it is a cycle of addiction. That is why EA ‘gambling’ has the potential to ruin lives and cost a lot of money, and why governments are expressing their desire to legislate against it and treat it like Betting, Casinos or other form of vice, in order to collect revenue to pay for social intervention schemes that fix the damage caused by the process.

In other words, the polar opposite of a charity. Charities are the groups that would be spending the money raised by additional levies on video games, to fix the damage that some publishers are accused of having caused with their schemes. Even if the business model ‘claims to have moved on or ceased’ (if at all), the damage still lingers for those affected.

In any case, we are all the audience, since we are all subjected to the similar advertising, and have a common steak in clearing up the mess, since everybody is a tax-payer, one way or another…

It’s simple, everyone. @preciousgollum1 just wants EA to stop making fun games and instead focus on teaching people about World War 2. Maybe it could be called “Storming the Beach” and you’d take three steps and get cut down by German guns. Fun? No! But totally realistic and you’d learn something at the same time.

He’s not a crazy person who thinks he’s better and smarter than everyone at all, he’s a marketing genius.

The notion that our history is going to be defined by Battlefield 5 or any number of ww2 games with a tenuous grasp of history I think is a bit short-sighted and misunderstanding the nature of how stories work in society. I don’t think anybody confuses the story of the Trojan War for true history, and I highly doubt anyone with any investment in the field will confuse a video game for the real thing. Sure, children will, but they’ve always been more interested in stories, myths, fiction- that’s part of being a child. In fact, I would go so far as to say that’s the fun of it.

And, earlier developers always had the option to be more ‘realistic’ in their games. In some cases, they did not have the mechanics we associate with realism as part of the design, but in some of them they chose to emphasize improving the quality of the game in and of itself- the ability for any character to get in any vehicle for example. We have examples of games where this isn’t the case, but the notion that a game’s quality as anything other than education would improve by adding more restrictive gameplay in such a way. I absolutely think, for example, the game Imperialism II or Colonization are vastly improved by playing on random maps, even though that reduces the ‘historical’ value of it.

The real ww2 had infantrymen as cogs in a machine- the average private had almost no real initiative, not much freedom to move around when the guns were out. These do not contribute to good gameplay and even in the most realistic offerings, the game doesn’t have you getting rounded up for straggling if you decide to go on a long flanking maneuver without telling your commanding officer. It’s probably better for this. If you talk about the presence of women, weapons, etc, those are small potatoes compared to that particular factor. That and the video game soldier knows he’s coming back after he dies so acts of bravery… aren’t.

EA is a large corporation with very harsh working conditions. I don’t want to stick up for this company, and I choose not to. I don’t like the loot boxes, but I feel like they’re just the last in a line of iterative addictive properties. I find the notion that ‘addictive’ is a sign of a good game to be ridiculous, but this has been going for the past 20 years. The worst aspect of games like this are their progression systems, cribbed from MMORPGs and now in almost every big-budget multiplayer game. In the original BF1942, if I had the game, from minute 1 I could use any weapon, get in any vehicle, do whatever. In BF1 and probably 5, I will have to play the game hours and hours to get everything. This is deliberate- ever since Call of Duty: Modern Warfare and Battlefield 2, these mechanics have popped up in FPS games, RTS games… they’re everywhere. There’s a reason for this- it’s a tried and true method of generating addiction, and I think it significantly weakens the games that have them.

… Which is a form of apologism and naivete. Children grow into adults and carry with them the ideas that they internalised as children. There is no ‘magic switch that suddenly makes people see differently upon adulthood’.

People can arbitrarily (or selectively) decide what they do and don’t believe in, based upon things like ego, convenience, or peer pressure. For example, we are only communicating in ‘English’, with alphabetic symbols, as a result of social conditioning and peer pressure. Was there truly any other option to be had in our formative years? What choice did you have?

Did wordygamergate .com shut down or something?

Because adults totally continue to believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. They also know for sure that you can’t go swimming until more than 15 minutes after eating.

Of course there’s a “magic switch” that makes people see differently upon adulthood. It’s called adulthood. The brain grows and adapts. We realize the stories we are told as children aren’t necessarily the truth.

Let’s try again. You’ve been all over the place in this thread. Why don’t you just come out and say that you don’t like girls in your games?

The brain going through adolescence doesn’t change people’s knowledge or opinions, but it changes how they feel and react to them; it does not grant wisdom (since, if Oscar Wilde is to be believed, Wisdom is the sum of mistake).

Why do you think that Bible studies start at a young age? It is so that the compulsion towards organised religion is trained before the brain goes through adolescence, so that Religious views are more difficult to shake off in adulthood. Brain ‘plasticity’, ‘hardening’ and all that jazz.

That simply isn’t the case. Do you require examples? Also, are you trying to insinuate the non-liking of female avatars, or the non-liking of women playing video games? Both?

Does your case rest on finding a ‘guilty’ verdict?

Man, /r/iamverysmart is leaking again

The last 30 years of gaming, and culture in general, have been a long, slow desensitization to violence, which to me is the bigger picture. More and more extreme examples become available every year, things that would have been unthinkable 10 years ago are now commonplace. We demand more realism in our murder simulations…that’s terrifying, and something that isn’t even considered at this point, it’s just a given that all of this is ok. The fact that the only thing that registers is that there are “girls” in your murder simulation now, is proof of just how far it’s gone. Patiently waiting for the “women and children first” shooter, where the goal is to kill as many as possible.

The abstraction has been removed from war gaming, it used to be pushing plastic pieces around on a hex grid board, now it’s slow motion, xray vision of a bullet going through someones skull. Instead of conveying the gravity and consequence of war, which you would think would be the outcome, it’s trivialized it in the worst possible way, by turning murder into entertainment.

Hey Jack Thompson, start your own thread.

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More kids need to be out there pretending to shoot each other when playing Cowboys & Indians or Cops & Robbers, dagnabbit! That’s some wholesome, nonviolent fun!

Well said. While it is easy to lean towards the ‘freedom of expression’ argument, and I would like to at times, there is still the issue of marketing being used in the crass & gratuitous manner that Battlefield V trailer has arguably demonstrated.

DICE are leaning heavily on the ‘Oh, you just don’the like girls’ argument, and a PC gamer article highlighted that a producer of BFV thinks he is on, quote, “The right side or history”. That is very evangelising language for what is supposed to be ‘just a video game’. The article quotes that the producer knew that they would face controversy, and, as has been seen over the past couple of days, have been very willing to talk down to criticism & any concerns - essentially cherry-picking a single issue to run with in the media.

Hence why, if ‘gamers’ (I.e customer) and developers are struggling to agree on any sort of code of conduct or expectations for their product, or sort themselves out, then governments could potentially step in and start producing more legislation.

When I played guns with my childhood friends, we always meticulously researched which units on which side of the war we were with and then accurately simulated the PTSD we got after our tough struggle.

You realize this would blatantly violate the 1st Amendment, right? The government doesn’t get to tell people what sorts of games they can make.

Thank god you aren’t in charge of anything. This is like talking with a group of people about the meaning of Lost and you’re that one guy who proudly proclaims that you don’t even own a TV because you find all the shows mindless.

If what you really want is the entire industry to be different and make totally different games, I’m pretty sure you’re not a gamer.

Most of the world doesn’t live under the USA First Amendment…

Also, never underestimate politicians.

Ah, the ‘gamer’. It isn’t enough to just play games these days - it now has to be an identity.

Who gets to be a gamer? How many games must a gamer play, before you can call them a gamer?

What?

See. That’s what I’m talking about. Publishers are scared of the real potential for government regulation in the industry, and publishers are probably also aware that, once it begins, governments would be tempted towards drawin more legislation in successive waves, in order to continually appease the public.

For reference purposes, when Monty Python’s Life of Brian was originally released (1979) it was banned as blasphemous & offensive in parts of the UK + Ireland & Norway, by authorities that had the job of regulating Cinema.

There is a distinct possibility that companies such as EA deserve to be regulated, but, as in all political issues, there will be a dividing line, and companies like EA will likely try to get fans & supporters on their side. So far, EA Progressive™ is managing to get journalists on their side, by facilitating cash for social justice.

Freedom vs Responsibility and the like.