2794

Did I say that the death threats are OK? I wasn’t even aware of them. I said she was poked fun of because it didn’t seem like she was capable of being President. That is different than harassing her because she is a woman.

Also, what CraigM says.

2795

Was it really different? She had a regional accent, that hasn’t held men back from running for office with the same level of qualifications.

That’s my point, it’s OK to insult her and wish death upon her and everyone she is related to because you don’t agree with her politically. That fact alone renders her an inauthentic woman, a traitor to her gender. Because there is only one correct political party for women. That fact alone also renders her stupid and possibly mentally ill. Because there is only one correct worldview.

She keeps on doing what she believes in, but she won’t ever be praised as a Sark-level “hero,” will she? Because it’s not about the methods, lefties are just as capable of repellent behavior and death threats, it’s about the political alignment. The same tool is illegitimate harassment when used by one side and proof of righteousness when used by the other.

2796

P&R is that way ---->

2797

You’re kidding yourself if you think this thread, or Sark, is politics-free.

But I will soon become bored and move on like I always do.

2798

It wasn’t her accent people made fun of.

And at no point did anyone say death threats were okay. Insults are part of being a public figure, that you rail about insults and then follow up with… insults is classic. You know who else gets insults? Every fucking politician and public figure in the history of the world (unless you’re some sort of dictator who makes those people disappear and then you still get insulted by people you can’t touch).

2799

Statistically speaking, stupid people generally aren’t likely to be correct as often, but I doubt that’s what you’re going for.

Sorry, I see more heroism in owning up as a minor media figure than as a politician, yes. Part of it I’m sure has to do with whether or not one can reasonably expect one’s cadre of crack bodyguards to help protect. Part of it also inevitably has to do with whether or not I believe someone is saying something they feel they have to, out of deep conviction. I’ve very rarely seen politicians that leave me with that feeling in the last decade.

All that being said, calling for death threats against anyone is unacceptable. It shouldn’t be done by men, women, conservatives, republicans, time lords, or daleks. So I’m just not really interested in playing your game of false equivalence, sorry.

2800

I think we’re talking about two vastly different things. You seemed to be implicitly criticizing the decision to still allow the talk to go forward. I think that was the right decision by USU admins. It would suck had Sarkeesian wanted to go anyway and been prevented from doing so on a non-credible threat, mainly because it gives the asshat making the threat more power than they deserved.

That being said, I had a whole paragraph about how I think her not going made perfect sense. I agree with you 487% that death threats in not only this case, but ANY case involving speech, is monstrous. As are all the other threats and in general harassment that Sarkeesian and others have gotten.

Period. Full stop. End of discussion.

The reason we’re talking about stuff other than how to address the real problem is that, well, how DO you address the real problem? I can try to be the best, most egalitarian and humanist I can be. I can encourage you to do the same. I can even spend time arguing against the terminally thick (although arguing on the internet as a means to effect social change seems… erm… lets say Sisyphean at best?) But at some point we’ll make the nth+1billion lap around the same track of “Let’s teach people to respect other people, to accept differences in opinions, and to learn to disagree politely” and we’ll still end up nowhere because some subset will decide that this is a war which has to be fought with a scorched earth policy, and only a body count will teach people.

Where, exactly, do you go from there? How do you work “fix” other people? I sure as hell don’t know. In fact, I can’t even find any yardstick to measure whether or not I’m the one that’s “right” or I need “fixing” in a reliable manner. So all I’m left with is respect and consideration and… y’know… hope. :/

2801

No. I am criticizing the individuals who seem to think that because the authorities allowed it to go on, and Anita canceled it that somehow she is fabricating being a victim, as if the threat is always empty unless the authority says otherwise.

As for discussing the real problem, we can start by discussing the real problem and stop deviating to side stories about journalism integrity and whether or not we’re allowed to discuss that these women are being targeted more in part because they are women. Every time this topic comes up, the discussion gets diverted because some men feel excluded, some men hate journalism, some men don’t want their toys changed, but none of that invalidates the death and rape threats women receive as trying to be part of the gaming community. Her case is only rare because of the strength of the attack, but these attacks happen to a lot of us, normally.

And we can start with the people these individuals seem to idolize, developers, journalists, people in the industry to start treating women in general with respect. There have been voices in the gaming industry who have suggested, publicly in some cases, that there is a problem within the industry itself. So no, you can’t fix some unknown 15 year old sitting in his parents basement telling some girl he has decided is cute enough to sexually harass or ugly enough to just tear down to stop it, but you can make sure the individuals in the industry he thinks he wants to be a part of conveys that women are equals and should be treated with respect and heard.

2802

If Sark was doing her thing for free I might have bought this elaborate evasion. Clearly you are stingy with your hero badges.

2803

Keep calling her Sark. That’s really lending some excellent gravitas to your arguments, champ.

2804

Indeed. I reserve them for folks who I think are acting within a modicum of integrity. Alas, I overlooked the poor, altruistic politicians. Mea maxima culpa.

2805

I find that “dipshits” and/or “assholes” is easier than typing out the whole phrase above, in that case.

However, I appreciate your dedication to using the Queen’s proper English, and not taking the easy way out!

Her case is only rare because of the strength of the attack, but these attacks happen to a lot of us, normally.

That too is inexcusable. I’m sorry you have to deal with such bullshit. :(

There have been voices in the gaming industry who have suggested, publicly in some cases, that there is a problem within the industry itself. So no, you can’t fix some unknown 15 year old sitting in his parents basement telling some girl he has decided is cute enough to sexually harass or ugly enough to just tear down to stop it, but you can make sure the individuals in the industry he thinks he wants to be a part of conveys that women are equals and should be treated with respect and heard.

I think it needs to extend far beyond the industry, but I agree anywhere that such things can be made to happen are a good place to start. I think, however, that it’s inevitable that some people won’t be willing to come along for that ride, even if you try to drag them, kicking and screaming. There are probably some folks like that on this very board, even. It’s… unfortunate. It’s more these folk that I was referring to, unfortunately.

On the plus side, it does look to me as if there are reasonable parts of the industry who are at least paying lip service to the idea that these things should be addressed. There’s surely more to be done, though.

At the end of the day, however, I still can’t “fix” other people. I can do my best to tell them when I find behavior abhorrent, to not practice that behavior myself, to support people who’ve been harmed by that behavior, and to be vigilant against things that implicitly or explicitly perpetuate that behavior. It’s not much, it’s certainly not enough, but it’s something I can do. (Oh, and I can also promise to raise my son in a manner that, hopefully, means that for him doing these things does not require vigilance but, rather, simply being himself. That’s probably the single most important thing I can do, but, alas, it doesn’t help in the near term. :/ )

2806

I do feel like a champ.

2807

Did you just suggest Palin did her stuff for free? Or is it that compensation is only vilified if the person says something you don’t agree with?

2808

Abbreviating a long, somewhat weird name is now bad?
Maybe it’s done to write it faster??

2809

It does show a sign of disrespect and we live in a world with copy/paste.

2810

But who has the time to look up the last place they typed “Little Miss Social And Political Thought Degree”? And heaven forbid you abbreviate it to LMSAPTD.

2811

You are being incredibly condescending. Also - please keep P&R in its respective forum.

2812

So only praise for She Who Must Not Be Abbreviated is appropriate here. Got it.

2813

Or in P&R apparently