2814

You’re right, we should only ever discuss the death threats, now and forever.

2815

One would be remiss to point out that referring to Ms. Sarkeesian as “Anita” is also disrespectful (and potentially sexist), much in the same way that antebellum slaves were known by their first name and never referred to in the respectful form (Mr./Ms. Lastname). Unless someone is actually a friend of yours, it’s inappropriate to use the familiar form of address. The respectful way to refer to someone is <title> <lastname> or <title> <firstname> <lastname> or <lastname>, and than simply <firstname> or <abbreviated version of name> or <antisemitic abbreviated version of name> or…

This is not intended as an attack at forgeforsaken or RickH, but instead as a simple observation. What’s interesting is once you start paying attention to it in everyday life – women in positions of power are much more likely to be referred to simply by their first name, even by political allies, than men (who typically get the more honorific form of address).

2816

Heh, well I just wanted to be clear what I am objecting to. Again, I don’t even share some of her views, but I find the campaign against her inexcusable and muddied with other claims so we can’t focus on that ugliness.

That too is inexcusable. I’m sorry you have to deal with such bullshit. :(

I think it needs to extend far beyond the industry, but I agree anywhere that such things can be made to happen are a good place to start. I think, however, that it’s inevitable that some people won’t be willing to come along for that ride, even if you try to drag them, kicking and screaming. There are probably some folks like that on this very board, even. It’s… unfortunate. It’s more these folk that I was referring to, unfortunately.

On the plus side, it does look to me as if there are reasonable parts of the industry who are at least paying lip service to the idea that these things should be addressed. There’s surely more to be done, though.

At the end of the day, however, I still can’t “fix” other people. I can do my best to tell them when I find behavior abhorrent, to not practice that behavior myself, to support people who’ve been harmed by that behavior, and to be vigilant against things that implicitly or explicitly perpetuate that behavior. It’s not much, it’s certainly not enough, but it’s something I can do. (Oh, and I can also promise to raise my son in a manner that, hopefully, means that for him doing these things does not require vigilance but, rather, simply being himself. That’s probably the single most important thing I can do, but, alas, it doesn’t help in the near term. :/ )

Well true. There is no fix this world easy button, but it seems reasonable to start with the professionals. No industry is perfect, of course, but there are easy steps to take. For example, the next time someone is asked why women weren’t considered for their game, let’s not snicker and take the question seriously. And maybe stop saying women don’t play so we don’t matter because guess what, some of these young men just take women don’t matter from that attitude.

2817

Actually this is entirely cultural. We only use first names where I work, all the way up to our CEOs. No one uses a last name unless you’re dealing with say 2 jims and three jessica’s, then things get creative. I’ve never seen anyone just whack part of a last name though. We did have an individual who had a very long difficult first and last name, we used the name he said we should call him which was just 4 letters of his first name. Again, he offered that, it wasn’t just made up.

2818

People on this forum routinely talk about developers and journalists who are not on the forum, and refer to them by first name.

2819

Are you in California? That’s the only place in the U.S. where I’ve personally observed this to be true in professional settings. It’s certainly not true in academia as a general rule, in business (at least in Europe, the East Coast, South, or mid-West, in my experience), or in politics. I have seen it in some organizations where they’re trying to hide (or overcome) the hierarchy in the organization, but don’t know if that speaks to your experience.

I think, in most instances, when someone says “Soren” in reference to Soren Johnson, they probably know Soren Johnson in person (at least on Qt3), since the industry seems to be pretty small. When you’re talking about someone you’ve never met, do you routinely use their first name?

2820

In all of the physical science labs I’ve been in and profs I’ve talked to, first names were the rule (undergrad, grad, and at conferences). Maybe 50% of the humanities/social science profs in undergrad went by “Professor so-and-so” in class (generally the older ones), and IIRC if you got to know them out of class (i.e. worked with them) it would go to first name basis, but probably they wanted a more orderly/professional/whatever in-class environment. (Make of that what you will.)

But I agree talking about someone you’ve never met by the first name is a little off. I’d go with [First Last], [Last], or initials if it’s known who you’re talking about. (Especially in this case, where I don’t know how to spell Sarkeesian off hand, I would go with AS.)

Edit: now that I think about it, in grad school there were some physics profs who went by Prof. so-and-so, so I’d say it’s an in-class out-of-class thing.

2821

I have a long and unusual last name. Anyone referring to me by a familiarized form of it is damn well being disrespectful; calling me “Bies” or “Beez” or whatever is some bullshit that I would absolutely call out. Would you call Tom “Tommy” or “Chickie” if you were interested in having anything approaching a respectful dialogue? And that’s not even starting in on the whole gender issue.

Especially in the context of laughing off someone’s Master’s degree as being in some lame-o libtard non-discipline, the tone is extremely shitty.

Christ. I don’t even care for Sarkeesian’s videos much, and find plenty to disagree with in her analysis. Disrespecting her on a personal level and/or questioning her “right” to engage in such commentary, though, is just about the biggest pile of bullshit there is.

2822

It’s first names all the way up to the top in my office. Indeed, it would probably worry folks if last names were being used, would probably mean something bad was happening. And I am a chronic nicknamer, helps me remember and I am terrible at retaining names for whatever reason.

2823

I had no idea you felt so strongly about the high value of people with degrees. I’d tell you about mine but I’d be embarrassed by all the apologies for impugning my lofty status.

2824

Oh for god’s sake. I realize you’re just trolling, but y’know. You could not.

2825

Ha, ok.

2826

No. I do not live in CA. The first name culture though has been found in all the businesses I worked at in this area, and also at the university I attended. I do live on the west coast though. It’s not as narrow a cultural tendency as you think it is… aka one state or even on industry. It would be false to suggest that the name preference is some sort of professional requirement when it’s really up to the culture of the organization.

I think, in most instances, when someone says “Soren” in reference to Soren Johnson, they probably know Soren Johnson in person (at least on Qt3), since the industry seems to be pretty small. When you’re talking about someone you’ve never met, do you routinely use their first name?

I’ve never met Anita. I’ve referenced her several times in this topic as Anita. It’s not a sign of disrespect, not from my cultural background. I should also add, her last name is not necessary for anyone in this discussion to know whom I am referencing either. I might add a last name if someone said something like… Anita who?

2827

I grew on the East coast and have worked here since 93 (starting on Wall Street, then in the games biz). Every boss I’ve ever had has gone on a first name basis and if a staffer of mine called me anything but Ken, it would super odd. I’m not sure it’s ever happened. And not because I made it a rule or anything, I don’t think it would have even occurred to anyone. People at companies here aren’t Kenneth the Page from 30 rock. :)

In addition, would you expect to say, “I really love that movie with Ms. Streep in it!”?

2828

There is absolutely nothing wrong or disrespectful in referring to somebody with their given name.

2829

Most of the UK now uses first names rather than last except in most forms of teaching and then they refer to each via first names unless in the presence of pupils.

Me calling my boss Simon or Mr Wilson really makes no difference one way or the other and respect is not given but earned regardless of the name used.

2830

You have a point with the latter point, you don’t with the first point.

2831

I didn’t mean to detail the thread regarding forms of address. I should have been clearer:

When you are referring to someone with whom you are not personally acquainted, it is typical practice to refer to them in a formal/polite fashion, rather than using the familiar first name. There are exceptions where someone had built a brand on their first name, but those are the exceptions, not the rule.

In reference to Meryl Streep, I think I would use her full name, typically, since I have never met her. When writing about or discussing her work, would you simply refer to her as Meryl (rather than Meryl Strep, Ms. Streep, or simply Streep)?

2832

Ok Rin.

2833

More than disrespectful, that’s confusing, lol.