Gotcha, thanks.

Yes. There are a few #gg people who are insinuating exactly that.

I’m sure next they’ll be saying that the FBI are a bunch of SJWs because they pretended that Anita contacted them to help her get attention.

To distill NYS down, I suspect its mostly minorities who don’t like the social justice community*. It grew out of one side mass tweeting that gamergate was purely white male 4chan types, and attracted all sorts. Some must be naive about the industry, i personally find any outrage of journos giving high scores for mates a bit silly (I’ve drunk with both devs and journos on many occasion). It is a bit messy though when it comes to the big players, I’m in an industry where bribery and corruption earn you long sentences (in theory), and whilst very little in gaming is illegal, much wouldn’t pass our code of ethics. Some transparency never goes amiss. However some of NYS crowd must have run ins with the social justice crowd before.

i.e I’m a half breed mulatto who has no problem with HP Lovecrafts description of half breed mulattos. Actually, with my new beard, I’m especially swarthy too! Fear me Howard! I would of course, be offended if someone wrote it today, but the twenties are totally disconnected from my reality. Growing up in rural England in the 70s and 80s dont half give you a thick skin too.

Anyway, mostly white, mostly middle class, mostly comfortable kids and young adults adopting the social justice cause and expressing outrage on my behalf about something I adore is really, really offensive to me. Also, the standard SJW tactic of any dissent to their cause means that the person who defends Lovecraft is racist and those poor, poor mixed race people, they must be devastated Lovecraft is still in print! Hence the concept that SJWs shouldn’t use racism/homophobia/transphobia/misogyny as the counter argument to every complaint they have.

I expect the trans person whose going hammer and tongs at Leigh Alexander and Ben Kuchera at the moment has had similar experiences. You definitely see an undercurrent of this from a selection of people.

After all, other than cries of misogyny, can anyone articulate the counter arguments of anti-gamergate?

Some of NYS of course, actually are white male 4chan sockpuppets, or just people along for the ride. This is the internet after all.

*the extreme element etc

The only reason I heard of Sarkeesian or saw her videos (along with the wider community) is because of the campaign that tried to stop her Kickstarter and silence her. I am not very plugged into this stuff and I am not on social media. If she had no detractors and her KS campaign quietly met its goal her videos may never entered into my consciousness. It was like a variation of the Streisand effect. Good for her for turning the negative attention into a career and platform of sorts.

-Todd

And now Doublefine is getting DDOSed.

What an amazing ethics movement!

At least we got this from Tim:

It’s not a movement, its the flock of birds or shoal of fish again.

Except some of the shoal are 4chan.

The thing with 4chan its like 20 million eyes looking at 20 million places, but rarely, all the eyes look at the same thing and BAM its the Eye of fucking Sauron man, and you’ve got an army of orcs running towards you.

Gamergate did that too, it actually had various chans co-operating with each other. Nearly unheard of.

Which doesn’t seem any different for anyone in the industry. Devs, pubs, journalists, anyone connected to gaming tries to get attention. It’s a noisy field out there. As for her being an amateur, pretty sure she is that exactly. I generally don’t criticize indie games for not looking like a 200 dollar budget title either. She got her video out and people talking, well talking and yelling. I am guessing that was partially her goal… maybe not the yelling part.

That’s the biggest difference, this focus. The mobs are just shifting from one target to another, facts be damned. And what’s their goal really… to destroy. I suspect very few actually want the destruction of much so much as discourse and some change.

Even if only a tiny percentage get involved, its still a huge number of people skilled in being anonymous and sending insults, threats, hacking, doxxing, swatting etc Some might not even know what gamergate is, are just fed the target coordinates and will do it for fun. Privilege mockery memes and tumblr raids have been going on for ages, long before the game related stuff. so there’s plenty of SJW/4chan history. The single biggest motivator that 4chan has is for the lulz.

I think this is key to the point, because without changing the way the internet works (i.e no one is anonymous, ever), if activists tread in the world where the denizens of the lower reaches of the web live in (games, comics, sci-fi, oh I forgot the SJWs declared war on MLPs* a while back too) , unless they plan carefully and introduce change gradually all they are going to do is gain unwanted attention, and from there on in the percentages come in to play.

Unlike gamers, the poor MLPs had no voice* when SJWs decided all were paedos and weirdos and needed to be eradicated and just had to hunker down until the storm blew over.

**because who wants to the voice of the movement that fucks My Little Pony plushies.

Except the people who are upset with the word misogyny being thrown around loosely are just as quick to label anyone they disagree with as a SJW. As for gamersgate, why would a lot of people know what that is? This situation started with harassment and people feeling threatened by potential change, then there was an attempt to make it about the gaming industry and it’s relation to gaming media. There seems to be several conversations about current events happening at once, and they’re talking over each other, but that doesn’t mean they are necessarily addressing the same thing.

I didn’t know about the MLP war. I sort of assumed the Internet had made peace with the brony crowd. Oh well, Probably best not to dig into that.

I understand the frustration with people being offended on your behalf. It’s its own kind of condescension, but definitely too complex a conversation to have over Twitter hashtags, especially if poisoned with intentional bad actors.

Similarly, the HP Lovecraft conversation. Even aside from the historical context, it seems like a more complex situation. His work, while you can argue it’s essentially racist in its xenophobia, by my understanding his later work revealed some complex and evolving feelings, and a gradual path towards acceptance of those same alien forces.

Similar arguments apply for Rudyard Kipling.

Even if he didn’t move towards acceptance, it would be ridiculous to disparage someone who liked Lovecraft on that basis since he’s clearly important for so many reasons outside of that. At the extreme end, it’s like how people still watch The Birth of a Nation for it’s importance in establishing so many filming techniques. Disliking Lovecraft works on a personal level for views like that I could understand, but not to the point where it makes you disparage others for liking his work. I get riled up by these discussions a lot but I hope I never end up on a side advocating that in the heat of the moment.

That may be true, but there are social justice barbarians hacking and slashing around these days. Not to mention a whole bunch of other prestige classes. The real issue to me is defining what is positive contribution and what is negative- I know I’ve given my take on this.

Is now a ethics movement every time someone get DDSed?? You know there is always a game or two getting DDOSed every day, it’s just that not in the news every time it happens.

But the tweet is amazing.

Its almost worth the 20$ I have paid for a russian botnet to DDOS him :D (just kidding)

Ok. All caught up now.

Except, there is one thing I’m missing. What is MLP?

I just checked it in Google. It’s the first result ;) (and second, and third, and fourth).

That’s the first thing I did as well. All I saw were a ton of links to My Little Pony sites.

EDIT: OH! ok all caught up.

The new My Little Pony- which is actually pretty well-written. Lauren Faust is a good writer.

My Little Pony.

Too slow…

I made a dumb joke about #GamerGate on twitter last night and was immediately beset upon by nearly a dozen shock troops for the cause. One lovely specimen, “Sail Hatan” quickly evaluated my profile and history to tell me how irrelevant and insignificant I was and how my existence had no worth. I blocked her(?) before we got to what was obviously going to be the “why don’t you just kill yourself?” part of the conversation.

Several engaged me in what appears to be a coordinated campaign of counterpropaganda. I had referenced the logical inconsistencies of a “vivian james” image being passed around. It quite glaringly contradicts itself three different ways in a very short amount of text. Having demonstrated the incoherence of the image I was challenged to provide “examples”. “Why are you being so vague?” they demand. “You obviously don’t understand logic.”

I could not have been more clear. There is nothing vague about a logical inconsistency. I was then told I was being rude and that I was using “big words” and not explaining my position. Apparently “my side” was doing a poor job of moderating “trolls” like myself.

Most grew bored and moved on taking their bad faith arguments with them, but one continued to harry me me for another three hours. “Max Jenius” he named himself. His personal hobby horse was patreon related corruption.

“This lawyer guy says funding sources is a Conflict of Interest!” he exclaims with a link. I listen to the interview, and it’s clear the lawyer understood the word “funding” to mean “investing” where the journalist has an opportunity for a windfall. Of course, $3 thrown in a hat every month is hardly comparable.

I pointed this out which prompted a shift to checkbook journalism. Jenius did not use this term. He did not seem to understand what it actually involved, but some anon on 4chan said “paying sources is wrong” so that had become his mantra.

I spent a good long time trying to pin him down on how contributing to a patreon was any different than buying a game for coverage. I was told many times to “look up ‘buy’ in a dictionary”, but he could offer no theory on how they were materially different other than the potential for a patreon to fail to produce.

“If nothing comes out,” I reasoned, “then there can be no conflict as there will be no game or coverage to influence.”

“Games get cancelled all the time!” he replies. Indeed.

I change tack. “What, in your opinion, makes a particular patreon holder a source?” This status being the cornerstone of his argument I assumed this was a simple question.

“Being a source and having a patreon are independent” he replies. Granted of course, but that did not answer the question. So I ask again, and he replies the same way a second time.

“So you agree they are unrelated and therefore no conflict is necessarily implied?” I ask.

And thus begins an nearly endless loop of him demanding if I know what “independent” means while simultaneously evading the substance of my query. “If they are a source and you are paying them with patreon that’s a big no-no.” he admonishes.

Back and forth, back and forth. “What is your justification for calling a patreon a source?”

“I said they’re independent. Don’t you know what independent means? Explain it to me. Look it up in a dictionary. They’re independent.”

I know what it means. I say so again and again. I even debase myself by defining the for for him in the context he used it but still he bristles.

“I asked you to explain what makes them sources. Still waiting. If you can’t then we must assume they’re not.”

Finally he replies. “If you interview them, for example.”

And there we have it. In his mind throwing $4 to an indie developer is no different than paying $10,000 for an exclusive interview with an accused murderer or a million dollar bounty for celebrity baby photos.

“By your logic a reporter who subscribes to Netflix must recuse himself from an interview with Reed Hastings.” I prod.

“Strawman!” he cries. “Why don’t you weave a hat with all that straw?”

“At least it would match your house.” I answer with a sigh.