Games Journalism 2018: We're taking it back!


Unless that’s an ironic example of the point, it’s a pretty toxic statement itself.


Only if you’re a Nazi. Otherwise it’s just enforcing the social contract for the good of humanity.


Congratulations on lacking the insight to understand that you’re exemplifying what other people on this thread are talking about.


The problem, as with most statements of the sort, come in the definition of “Nazi”. As there are very nearly no actual National Socialists around these days, it’s either a statement without a subject or it’s a threat against anyone to the right of, say, Lenin.


Again, this is only a problem if you’re a Nazi. The rest of us don’t find it that hard to identify the people with swastika tattoos advocating violence and oppression of minorities as Nazis.


Your echo-chamber is here, you seem to have mistakenly ended up in the Games Journalism thread!


I’d have more sympathy for that statement if people on the left hadn’t just spent a year claiming Trump was a Nazi against all evidence that he’s what would have been called a centrist democrat in the 1990s.

It’s not at all clear to me which of us you’re responding to here.


I totally agree. Kids are the most numerous offenders, but the guys who are 30 and still can’t get through a round of Battlefield without going into an unsportsmanlike rage are the worst. (Yeah, I’m talking about you, ONYX. I never would have played on your server if there was another one running that game mode!)


The guy who suddenly dropped in to start talking about punching Nazis out of the blue.


I see the problem. You’ve been dead for 14 months. Ask God for a newspaper. Turns out he is an ignorant, racist, misogynist, malignant narcissist suffering from dimension and delusions of grandeur posing the greatest threat to humanity since a certain dapper Austrian took the Wermarch by storm.


I see you’re going with the “anyone to the right of Lenin” definition. That’s… remarkably unhinged and utterly unrelated to video games. I’m not gratifying you with attention any longer. I’m sorry to everyone else in the thread that I contributed to this as much as I did.

(Edited to remove attack)


The guy who thinks Trump is a normal centrist is lecturing me about being unhinged? Right. Sorry to burst your bubble if you thought this forum was going to be MAGA safe zone or something. But I probably should have been surprised when you jumped at the chance to defend Nazis from getting punched.


I ain’t a mod guys. Happily this is the least modded place I know. But you know, to keep it that way why don’t we all chillax a bit? Before Tom or Wumpus ban us all and let god sort it out? :)


Anonymity must be at least a significant factor, but I also think that online exchanges (and social media) can be so antagonistic and occasionally outright vile for reasons that are also positive aspects of the internet (or at least they were supposed to be positive, and are in other contexts):

  • democratization of speech - everyone has a voice, and the internet gives everyone the opportunity to express an opinion that finds an audience. For people like me that grew up in the 80s that was initially very liberating. But the dark side of that freedom is that anyone can say insulting/outrageous things and be heard (at least for a while) - those sorts of soapboxes didn’t exist pre-internet: people just weren’t accessible/wouldn’t hear you unless you worked for a publication or had some other semi-public status.

  • the social nature of online speech - echo chambers, insults without consequences and often rewarded for being outrageous or attacking targets that like-minded people also dislike.

There’s just an incredible decline in civility in our society today. You see it in political movements, protests, at colleges, from political leaders and other celebrities - nastiness, disingenuous exchanges, hypocritical antagonism – it’s all just nonsense at war with reality, motivated primarily by the power and standing fighting affords, more than any sincere desire to achieve stated goals.

It’s about empowerment for self aggrandizement, whether that translates into yelling slurs in a game or yelling to drown out someone’s speech you dislike.


I’ll just aim this at myself (unless anyone takes offense at that too, in which case ignore it…) and go read a book for the night.


Heh :) I should have that cartoon on speed dial for myself every day :)


I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been about to write a manifesto and then thought of that cartoon and got a couple extra hours of sleep instead.


I think the 30-40 year old assholes actually outnumber the toxic teens at this point.

Oh man, I missed punching Nazis in the face. Where did the time go?


Only if they’re doing really stupid shit, otherwise, there’s better ways to deal with it without fueling their believes. Take the advice from a former clansman if you want to engage - 1 2 3.


Thanks, the article was really interesting. There’s a 1996 news report featuring Daryl Davis:

The… Wizard? Roger Kelly left the KKK and gave his robe to Davis not too long after this, so the guy isn’t just talk!

This is a games forum where a distinct subgroup has formed over fantasising about committing physical violence. They have become so distant from any meaningful concept of reality and norms of behaviour, that they do so with a false sense of righteousness and moral superiority, while responding aggressively to any/all that do not fit with said group’s narrow views on particular subjects (as can be seen with Wyndwraith here among tens of others).

So as I said earlier, Brad’s belated joining of the conversation exemplifies the point the NYT article was making. Clearly videogames aren’t making people <racist/sexist/violent/fascists/whatever>, so studies need to concentrate less on the link between videogames and outcomes, and more on the cultures around videogames and outcomes.

Playing videogames haven’t made Brad_Grenz act this way, but he acts this way in a culture that evolved around the playing of them.

Perhaps all that these studies will find is that videogames led the way in how online communities and discourse evolved, and that the likes of twitter or facebook are in no real meaningful way different. It would be nice to find out though, and to perhaps insulate videogames further from the more overt criticisms it receives in press and politics.