Games Journalism 2018: We're taking it back!

Telling how? Say what you mean. Do not dance around the issue.

I chose Riot Games because it provided the exact example you said would not happen. Instead of admitting that you were wrong, you choose to shift the argument which is a game that I will not play.

You chose Riot Games because finding a reputable developer would require a lot more work, and it’s easy to find a company that is notorious for their record against women and other minorities to actually drop kick employees who actually attempted to address their problem with… women. And for some reason, you don’t think this specific case is one of the worst you could possibly find because you don’t understand these problems… at all.

Rob, many of us have experienced this. But when someone believes that past inequalities justifies poor behavior and exclusionary practices that is where I fundamentally disagree. Two wrongs generally do not make a right. If someone representing their company called clients “bitches” I would have the same exact reaction than if they call them manbabies. Neither is acceptable and both would be immediately terminated in a business that I run. Why? Because both are personal attacks within a business environment and that is NEVER acceptable.

Heh. I was just reading through the thread thinking that a tangent happened anyway, just not the one you headed off.

You think that telling customers to kill themselves is addressing the problem? You have a very different sense of addressing a problem than I do. Here is where I think you are entirely off the rails. These interactions are directed at the customer. As you are so fond of pointing out, the problem is INTERNAL to Riot. See the issue here? They are literally directing their guilt, remorse and anger at a group that has nothing to do with the problem at hand. If any of these folks have called their internal teams “manbabies” or told fellow employees to “f*** off” because of their corporate culture then that is something between them and their corporation. But all of these instances have been directed at the customers which is simply directing venom at the wrong group.

Also, do not EVER think for a minute that you have cornered the market on discrimination. Would you like to swap horror stories? Have you been told by a client to your face that they will not work with you because of your ethnicity and called you a racial epithet? Did you quit a well paying corporate job because you saw sexual and racial harassment that was not even directed at you? Just because someone has been victimized does not mean that they have to act like a victim.

Well, this thread seems to be going to horribly, again.

You made this a personal attack. Consider us done.

Why aren’t there any departments of MEN’S studies, or where is the White History month? Why do colleges have black student unions?

THIS IS UNFAIR

You claimed that I do not understand “these problems” and then think what I wrote is a personal attack. Pot, meet kettle. No matter what I wrote in response to that comment you would interpret it as a personal attack because you want it to be. It makes it easier for you to dismiss the points made than address the issues at hand.

I am still waiting on the half-Indian, half-Jew, born in India through the UK into the US month. The three of us that qualify would like to celebrate that. If not a month, how about a half-hour? We can call it the curry and kugel luncheon.

Oh look, there are good examples of why identity politics are toxic. Now can we take the rest of this to P&R and get back to talking about video games?

And just because one person succeeds despite adversity does not mean that everybody will be able to succeed despite adversity. While from an individual level it seems admirable to soldier on, if nobody ever raises objections and talks about their experiences, why would the circumstances ever change?

I heard a bit from Dr. King recently, that I’ve found instructive when thinking about systemic problems. Re: the story of the Good Samaritan:

it is also easy to see the shortcomings in the conduct of the Samaritan…There is no suggestion that the Samaritan sought to investigate the lack of police protection on the Jericho Road. Nor did he appeal to any public officials to set out after the robbers and clean up the Jericho road. Here was the weakness of the good Samaritan. He was concerned merely with temporary relief, not with thorough reconstruction. He sought to sooth the effects of evil, without going back to uproot the causes.

Well, I am not keeping score or anything, but it would be fair for there to be a men’s history course right? I mean, it seems blatantly unfair that there are only Women’s history courses an majors right? We need to treat everyone equally right?

I mean, we can’t treat female game developers any differently than men, so clearly we need to change all of the injustices in the world. What about LGBT exclusive gaming events? Why does Marvel have a “Black” panther, where is the white panther? Why does the new Star Wars movie have a female lead? Where are all of the male leads?

Taking identity politics to the limit and assuming your goal was equality, then yes you would need all of those. Or, alternatively, you drop the identity politics and just study history.

Why is there only a HISTORY major? Where is the FANTASY major?

Unfair.

You do realize there are men’s history courses, do you not?

Better question is WHY should we treat female game developers any differently than men? Women make up 22% in gaming, right? If this requires special treatment and rules, should the 23% of whites in the NBA be given the same consideration? How about the 7.7% of blacks in the MLB? How about the 9% of male nurses in the medical profession? Again, exclusion is not equal opportunity regardless of whom it impacts.

If you are going to persist with absurd examples, I am happy to provide you absurd responses. Try harder next time.

Why shouldn’t male nurses, black MLB athletes, and (sigh) white NBA players also have access to spaces where they can discuss the problems that they face as a result of the relationship between their race/gender and their chosen profession? There is value in discussing challenges that are faced exclusively or disproportionately by, for example, women, without having a bunch of, for example, men saying the problem doesn’t exist.

Moreover, just because people want to have a space to discuss issues specific to their identity group doesn’t mean that they are not being politically active in support of others. Sometimes you want to push for paid family leave for all, but other times you just want to talk about how being a stay-at-home dad gets you weird looks from people at the park, you know.

Edit to clarify: The “(sigh)” above is because my understanding is that white players in the NBA face meaningfully different challenges to black baseball players and male nurse (and, of course, women in gaming fields). That isn’t to say that there are not any, they just seem somewhat less likely to be rooted in discrimination by team owners, the media, or society than the other examples.

Francis Fukuyama is a very hard man to take seriously on anything.

And why is that?
Did you actually read ‘End of history’?