Hold up a second… you can block people on the forum? That might be handy for P&R…
Getting ugly in here. :-(
Nothing that cant be solved by a quick apology. Hopefully one is coming. We all make mistakes from time to time.
I left my mistake up there, I don’t stealth edit them away. That’s part of owning my errors.
But I remain of the opinion that statements like “women are not objects” would be silly if they weren’t based on an indictment of an entire group of humanity for no good reason. Not to mention that there is indeed a brisk business in women-image-objects with willing sellers and willing buyers. It is indeed a thing.
There is no such thing as collective guilt. Blaming the sex rather than the actor is useless moral posturing.
An apology for attacking the wrong person or thinking that someone committing revenge porn and or stealing private pictures is somehow on par with women modeling? If someone here has a model for a daughter is it somehow okay to say that?
Rod, in deference to your voice of reason, I have redacted the inaccurate statement. It’s a good idea.
I am no mod man. But I think you made the right call from a politeness perspective.
He just did withdraw that comment. Fairplay to him. As for his larger point, honestly I havent read the thread in full recently and I am gonna drive home so I cant really comment.
(1) Weird guy wasn’t the recipient of the illicit selfies, was he? If that’s the case it’s not revenge porn. No relationship, no revenge.
(2) Did weird guy “steal” the pictures? I don’t think that’s clear from the article. Up until the events in #3, he might have been able to claim that he was unaware of the provenance of the pictures because there is so much consensual product out there.
(3) What the weird guy did do was distribute pictures of an intimate nature after he was told that they were not meant to be released to the general public. That’s crappy and he should be rightfully shamed for it. That said, it’s not readily apparent to me what crime he has committed, but there very well might be one applicable.
(4) “Men” didn’t do this. I didn’t, my sons didn’t do it, and no man I know did it. Period. Blame the guilty.
EDIT: just reread the story. Here’s the truly confusing bit:
One day in July, 2012, I was listening to my Warlock friend’s chat when the chatters started discussing the contents of an imgur link that was posted. They described [details removed]. I felt sick. They continued to describe the scene of the photo. I recognized it. I didn’t see it, but I knew exactly which photo it was. I was at work, so I couldn’t click it to confirm.
Shaking, I texted the link to the guy I was seeing at the time. I told him it had just been posted in Twitch chat and from the discussion they had I thought it was of me. He confirmed what I already knew, they were mine. I didn’t say a word in chat. They stopped talking about them. I waited, hoping the lack of attention I gave the matter would end it. The guy I was seeing, and my friends, reported the image to imgur as abuse/posted without consent and it was deleted.
Assuming that the guy she was “seeing at the time” wasn’t the one who shared the photo, who did? She doesn’t say. Why does she let this guy off the hook?
I don’t know why you think I am blaming men in general. The fact is, the release of private nudes to the public appears to be more prevalent than one sex over the other. It would be equally as wrong for a woman to do it to a man, or in general, for ANY partner to share something private to the public just to be an ass.
Suggesting women shouldn’t model, women shouldn’t take pictures or record anything of a sexual intimate nature puts the blame on them. That’s not right. The wrong here is 100% in the other park, and that idiot who collected a bunch of nudes form people just giving it to him to spread to the public, it should be a crime and could literally be a crime if anyone he has is underage.
I think it’s entirely possible to tell people to be careful with their choices but not give a checklist to women in general of all the things we shouldn’t do.
For every woman we’re suggesting not take private pictures, how many guys are we telling don’t do this? How many sons are told hey, if some girl gives you a naked picture of her and you end your relationship, delete it, don’t share and better yet, just delete it? All the action, all the verbs, all the future expectations are being directed at women, what we should and shouldn’t do and for some reason the oh yeah he shouldn’t be a dick might as well be an asterisks in small print at the bottom.
And if a model chooses to show her body that does not make her private pictures open game or anything. The two are not even remotely the same, no matter who their father is or what they say or if they’re on this forum.
And this was a part revenge porn according to what was reported.
So have we taken back games journalism yet? We’ve been at it a couple of months now.
I tell my sons not to take nude selfies all the time, nor would I recommend they ask for or keep ones of girls. Because it’s a terrible idea.
And this was a part revenge porn according to what was reported.
PC Gamer used that phrase in its headline, but as I understand it, “revenge porn” is the posting/release of intimate photos by a person who was formerly in a relationship with the pictured (which is how they came into possession of the pictures). I make this distinction because such an individual knows that the image in question was not created for release. That’s the element of wrongdoing in “revenge porn,” because the pictured (let’s save the word “model” for someone who knowingly made the choice) is violating the pictured’s right to decide whether to have the image released. That’s the state of mind that makes it a crime.
I’m still a bit baffled as to how the name became associated with the image, or how so many names became associated with so many images if the story is correct. Or how it is that such a significant proportion of that community happened to have brought such pictures into existence. Bad judgment is running rampant.
This story broke maybe 3-4 days ago.
You’re making him sound more passive than he was, but Newsweek also says the same thing:
“He had dozens of albums of nude photographs, the most complete collection in all of the Twitch community,” Scarlett wrote. “When he received the small collection of my photographs from a source, he learned there was someone I had been involved with in the past who may have more and contacted him to get more photos for his album.”
And keep in mind, he admitted to this stuff. It’s not her word against his. He came out and admitted it.
And this nice gem:
Over the years, Scarlett communicated at length with Imgur, Twitch, and UncleSwagg himself in an attempt to get the pictures of her taken down.
He actively gathered the pictures, that’s quite obvious. He also appears to have carefully linked the images to names. Which is seriously creepy.
What is not clear is that he knew the images were released against the will of the pictured. If I’m going to accuse someone of a crime, I want to know that criminal intent existed.
But that’s why it’s such a terrible idea to make nudes in the first place, once control is gone it is gone forever. The writer’s lament is about this loss of control, and her anger that some person was in possession of the picture and was confronting her with it. But later, she states that she doesn’t think that he was actually the party responsible for the release that led to this article.
Which, to bring this full circle, is why my advice to ALL human beings is don’t allow nude pictures of yourself to come into existence. And let’s face it, 99%+ of humanity looks better with their clothes on.
EDIT: I did note in item 3 above that when he persisted in using the picture despite knowing it was not consentually released, that’s when he clearly became a wrongdoer, morally if not legally.
Well I posted after you posted, but she tried to get them taken down… he reposted them. It was clear he knew they should not up there, that she didn’t want them there.
Maybe the first time but after they were taken down and he kept posting them, how can he not know at that point?
I am just saying what he did and what she did… she didn’t do anything wrong. Nothing. We live in a digital age, whether or not she willingly posed for those pics… well her clearly asshole of an ex could have just as easily taken pictures without her knowing…what then, never undress in front of someone unless you know 100% they’re not a ass. or you are going to marry, and then of course ignore divorce rates.
It’s not a reasonable ask to tell all women, even the young, to never take their clothes off due to risk of digital permanence. Whether she chooses to or not, it can still happen, and we seem to have almost no crimes for this unless someone is underage.
That’s where we differ. She was guilty of poor judgment, and ended up paying the price. Not everyone pays that price, but it happens. It’s more than a little pollyannish to claim that someone should be able to make as many nudies as they want and never fear that it could go bad. That’s just not the way things work.
In other words, it’s not a sin to indulge a bad idea, but it’s still a bad idea and people only have so much sympathy.
Women have a right to be sexual. What he did was wrong. What she did was just human, but every woman has a right to express her sexuality. She didn’t do anything wrong here. She was victimized, and blaming her for that is pretty much victim blaming.
I still don’t think it’s victim blaming. The current state of the law in the US at least doesn’t give victims much recourse, as I understand it. As a result, it’s just prudence to say that you should do everything you can to avoid being a victim.
To clarify, because apparently that’s necessary: of course women have the right to be sexual. That doesn’t remove the responsibility to make good decisions about how to exercise that right. There will always be assholes out there and you need to protect yourself from them. Sometimes that means not doing things you’d otherwise like to do or want to do.
Edit: I think you’re talking about how the world SHOULD BE. RickH is talking about how it ACTUALLY IS.
Or, what Tom just said.
No one disputes this, Nesrie, which is why it’s hard to have conversations with you. You imply that someone said something, and then you continually take them to task for the thing they weren’t saying.
Of course women have a right to be sexual. The point is that right should be exercised with care, for men and women of all sexual orientations, for all sorts of reasons. If you don’t exercise your right to be sexual (i.e. if you circulate nekkid pictures of yourself) with care, you are vulnerable to the consequences, whether it’s venereal disease, messy relationships, nekkid pictures on the internet, or $130,000 settlements.
-Tom
How is telling women not to take nude pictures any different than telling her not to walk down the streets at night, or use the alley to get somewhere or wear a short skirt and avoid attention? If wearing a sheet makes men less interested and therefore is safer, then why aren’t we all wearing sheets? If some women get attacked at night, why do we allow women to walk at night. These are literal arguments people have used when a woman was attacked or victimized and we often call that victim blaming. They’re just living life. Life isn’t safe.
Teenage girls taking selfies probably draws attention too… we’re not trying to shut that down. I mean there is safe and there is policing.