Nesrie
1795
And how many cards does it take to read things that aren’t there?
The scale of the handwringing though far outpaces any “crime” she may have committed in her sub-optimal response. And nobody at all, for or against, seem to be interested in the guy. Frankly his firing seems even more “unjust” as far as these things go.
This discussion seems gendered because for some reason everyone for and against, suddenly becomes extremely interested when it’s a woman.
No, the discussion is gendered because she made it so by the reaction to the tweet. The discussion has become lively because of her continued insistence of pulling a gender card when it is not applicable.
PS - Sub-optimal seems to be a sub-optimal way of describing her reaction. Her response called a valued customer and member of the community effectively a bigot. This is not just sub-optimal. It is unacceptable.
Well, that does seem to a gender thing…
Granath
1799
Trust but verify and I do not believe this is a credible report.
Well, there are to competing narratives, and this certainly seems to fit one of them better than the other.
This certainty that being aggressive on social media gets you fired is kind of cute, because there’s someone who said all this in a single day in a single thread on the official forums:
“I am arrogant… but I am tired of defending my design and getting attacked on the forums for design-decisions that WORK, and makes more and more people play the games.”
“I’ll retire in about 30 years! Hope you are still alive then!”
"Explaining why its important to a bunch of players is a bit like trying to explain algebra to 3 year olds… "
“I don’t give a fuck about the AI in this issue… Its a matter of problem for the players vs players…”
He’s done it more than once, and while I disagree with some of his design choices, I mostly excuse what happens because it is a result of toxic language.
I’m sure him not going anywhere has more to do with him being in a tight-knit Swedish company than with being a white male, but no, angry rants don’t have to get you fired, and not caving to the toxic pressure clearly doesn’t have to lose you money either.
On the other hand, all I have on the current case is a couple of tweets and shit for context, so I don’t have much of an opinion on Pricestorm. I do want to say that @ArmandoPenblade’s dissertation was fucking brilliant, though, it took me way too long to understand that perspective.
CF_Kane
1802
So, I understand that this is the core issue for one side here, but I have trouble seeing it from this perspective. Stories like the one I’m linking below seem to make it clear that there is a gendered component to this experience. That doesn’t mean that the streamer guy said what he said intending to dismiss Price because she was a woman, but it does speak to her understanding of what happened and her experience.
RickH
1803
It does appear that you feel Price was denied some sort of “due process.”
Which I put in quotes because there’s not really any owed in the at-will context and because it seems pretty clear Price feels completely comfortable with her posts and resented losing an opportunity to explain why. Which I suspect would have had zero benefit or persuasive effect, but who knows?
But there should be some due process. I feel like most developed nations have some level of protection that we lack in the US. And by most, I mean all.
LMN8R
1805
I think the way she acted is really stupid.
I think the context around why she acted the way she did is important to consider by an employee who’s choosing how to punish her for her actions.
Both because of the harassment that the employee herself will face as a result of her public shaming, and the wide-ranging secondary effects that public shaming is causing for women elsewhere in the industry.
And it’s stupid for the company itself which now probably has a lot more employees looking for the exit.
So, I just want you to consider the situation.
An industry veteran, who has been the target of these attacks, and knows the way the industry works from the inside, believes this is a serious issue.
You, an enthusiast, without experience in either area, on the basis of your own feelings, believe that she is wrong, and feel comfortable publicly declaring so again on the basis of your own opinion but without any personal experience in the area.
Isn’t that how this whole thing started?
Good news! You can assure her that she has no reason for concern. @WhollySchmidt has said so.
Wow, that guy really knows how to run with a strawman.
I reject unrelated articles like this as evidence. They do not apply.
Deroir’s statements were polite and respectful. He simply had the temerity to disagree with her premise. She lost her shit all in the name of “her experience” and then proceeded to call him (essentially) a sexist pig. You know what? Her experience does not matter. Just because I have had issues with a race or a group of people does not give me the right to go off on clients just because I perceive that they are somehow insulting me.
This is an issue I have faced before quite a few times in my work career as I am a minority. When this has happened, I have three avenues of approach when a customer / vendor / fellow employee has said or done something inappropriate:
(1) Ignore it
(2) Let my management know that the individual is making me feel uncomfortable or causing a problem and let them deal with it. By escalating internally I protect myself and put the burden of action on corporate to deal with it.
(3) Confront them directly.
I have LONG known that the 3rd option - the nuclear option - is reserved for extraordinary circumstances when I have irrefutable evidence of an issue. Without going into detail, I can recall using this option only twice in a work career that stretches now about 35 years. Both times the act was overt and unquestionably intended to insult me based on my minority status. You simply do not do this because if you run the risk of being wrong you will be fired as you will have insulted your customer and embarrassed your company. Not to mention you will have shown yourself to be an over-reactive liability.
No reasonable indivdual can look at the posts by Derior and think that the intended disagreement was in any way, shape or form due to her gender. So you can link all sorts of unrelated articles but it makes no difference as I could link more based on my own status. They do not matter. What matters are the facts and her actions have no excuse. She deserved to get fired and she was. The really disappointing thing is that some people want to justify her actions and there really is no justification.
So, people who disagree with you are unreasonable. Got it.
Please provide any evidence to the contrary. Please show any evidence that his remarks in any way, shape or form address her gender. I will wait.
The reasonable individual standard is used quite a bit in legal circles. It is a fine standard because it weeds out the few people who want to take extreme positions or actions based on scant or no cause. As a minority I do not get to accuse someone of racism or bigotry because they had their head down and did not say hello to me in the halls one day. That is unreasonable. So were her actions.
Furthermore my statement is less extreme than the one you are defending. Not only was disagreeing with her unreasonable, it was specifically due to her gender. So to counter your bullshit and apply the same logic you are defending, you must be disagreeing with my statement because you are a racist twit. Got it.
Now tell me how reasonable that logic is.
Disclaimer: I do not think Dave is a racist twit.
Nesrie
1813
When men talk in certain industries and fields, people listen. When women talk, they’re questioned or ignored. It’s not a made-up thing. It’s a known problem. A woman can sit a table sometime, be completely ignored, 2 minutes later, some guy says it and suddenly it’s brilliant. I’ve seen this happen, and no, I am not talking about me.
There are a number of guys out there that just do not give women any sort of credence in their field. They just won’t do it.
The same thing happens in fields based on race. Hell, the same thing happens because some people are taller than others. This does not justify grossly misconstruing a statement, calling a customer a bigot and embarrassing yourself and your company. What seems to be even worse is that she has learned nothing from this incident and still thinks she has the right to do so. If I were hiring a game writer or designer I would not touch her with a 100 foot pole. She is a walking liability.
