Tim_N
1601
They used it as a signal to the wildlings on the other side of the wall, who then commenced their attack. They talk about this before the group of wildlings went over the wall last season. This episode didn’t really communicate it very well though.
It also scared the Night watch quite a bit.
olaf
1603
Season finale Sunday. Too soon!
I hope Arya turns into a monster. Not for her sake, but it would be pretty much unlike anything else on TV if we started with this character we have ultimate sympathy for, and what looks like a long-suffering tale of her quest for justice and righteous revenge, instead becomes the story of how life twists her into a pretty loathsome, hateful, killer, or something. Maybe they could do the same thing with Sansa, but she was a bit less sympathetic from the start.
We’ve got characters like Cersei who we sort of love to hate, and in all but the flattest characterizations we usually get at least a sliver of empathy through hints at how they became who they are, but I can’t think of a show where you ever actually see that kind of transformation unfold in someone without knowing it’s coming.
Teiman
1605
Supposedly in GOT theres not good guys or bad guys. Everyone is pretty gray. On the last episode she let some guy (that has ben helping her, even formed some type of friendship) die in painful dead, out of wim (she may have his reason, but everyone have reasons, I don’t care). Thats already very monster-like. You want it to be more monstrous?
Basically, yes. This is a good start, but even this was motivated by revenge, the Hound was specifically on her list of people to kill (I can’t even remember specifically what got him on the list, it was probably in season one). At this point, her list of people to kill is mostly “bad guys”. I know everybody’s got their reasons and it’s not black and white, but thus far, she’s still mostly targeting people we could generally agree have been rotten across the board. It would be fascinating if she starts adding people to her list that might have legitimately wronged her, but end up being more important, or even good, for the kingdom. I want to see it explored if she’s faced with a persona vengeance vs. the good of the many sort of situation. Thus far those things haven’t really been in conflict, and it would be pretty bold if they kept her on the path of personal vengeance at all costs.
The Hound had executed that baker’s boy (I think) who hurt Joffrey when he was being an asshole to Sansa. He just obeyed orders, but Arya evidently doesn’t care all that much.
Ah yes, thank you. Now what I want is more of that, more personal vendettas. I want to see that explored and I think they’re in a great place to do that subversively, in a way that could be pretty shocking when the audience finally realizes the hero they’ve been cheering for is just as much a villain as anyone else.
IMHO it’s wrong to think of GRRM’s characters as “grey”. He’s not a grey writer, nor is he a moral nihilist or relativist. Good is good, evil is evil.
But part of the point of his writing is that his characters are tempted by and struggle with pulls in both directions. He often quotes Faulkner as his lodestone: conflict in the human heart is the only thing worth writing about (or words to that effect).
The other part of the point of his writing is unintended consequences. e.g. freeing slaves is unequivocally a good thing; chucking a kid out of a window because he’s discovered your incestuous relationship is unequivocally a bad thing. However, good actions can lead to unintended bad consequences down the road (as we’re starting to see in Meereen for Dany), just as bad actions can lead to unintended good consequences down the road (Bran’s crippling is part of a chain of events that leads him to become a major player).
He’s not trying to get away from having a struggle between good and evil, or having that be the main driver of stories. In his books, you are still supposed to root for good and abhor the evil. It’s just that you can’t expect good to win just because it’s good, and evil to fail just because it’s evil; and also people are very rarely (with a few exceptions like Ned, Ramsay, maybe Joffrey) definable as either exclusively (but that doesn’t mean “grey” wins - precisely, it is never settled, the human heart is always dynamic, always in conflict with itself, a predominantly good character still has to struggle to stay predominantly good throughout temptations, being evil is also hard work; and even a predominantly good character can change to predominantly bad, and vice-versa).
Well said, gurugeorge. The “ASOIAF is painted in shades of gray,” but when you actually scroll through the cast list you see a bunch of outright monsters. I mean, what about Gregor Clegane?
Huh, yeah, great post. I usually blip right by comments about “characters who are shades of gray” but you’ve given me a new perspective on it.
One other thing about this series that reminds me of military history: occasionally I discover myself kinda-sorta “pulling” for the bad guys. Not rooting for them, per se, but for my sad-sack personality, missed opportunities always seem like a bit of a tragedy. I can’t help feeling bad for the losers sometimes.
Maybe I missed it, but why was Stannis north of the wall?
Season 3, Davos (Onion Knight) advises a true king would deal with existential threats to the kingdom.
There’s that scene when, having seen the WW and killed one, Sam and Gilly arrive back at Castle Black after their travails, tell Maester Aemon about it, and Maester Aemon sends out the ravens to the whole kingdom with a note pleading for help re. the coming of the WW.
Meanwhile back at Dragonstone, Davos is learning to read at that time, and reads the raven note, shows it to Stannis just as Stannis is about to decide to execute him finally and definitively, Melisandre reads the note and says “yeah, shit’s just got real up North, that’s where the real battle is, as Azor Ahai that’s where you have to go next, and we’ll need Davos”, and Davos is let off the hook. Powerful scene, with the sunset streaming in the window in the map table room at Dragonstone, with the weird Rh’llor/Melisandre theme tune playing.
In parallel you see the same raven note arriving at a Small Council meeting, where they pooh-pooh it.
Thanks for the recap. That thread had just slipped my mind.
I am waiting eagerly for season 8.
I may not see it for a while, but I agree!!
I fully expect to do the same thing I do every year…wait until a week or two before the finale, then subscribe to HBO GO and binge everything up to that point so I’m caught up for the big finish.
You dudes are talking to a bot, you know that right?
You gotta help the AIs reach full potential!
