That’s the aspect that makes me feel bad. I’m not overly ambitious about most things, so there isn’t much motivation for me to draw upon to take up something else - but I feel like I should. There isn’t even some type of ‘dream job’ where I think - if I could do this for a living that would be cool. There’s probably a lot of people who have dreams (or at least excitement) about doing ‘X’. I’ve got all this time and I can’t come up with an ‘X’ for myself.
Well the ‘drift hypothesis’ is true, but part of it being true is that it can’t be stopped no matter who you are, and it’s a bit of an indulgence for your psychiatrist brother to engage in.
What you’re describing is just a bit of frustration and lack of direction, you need to unwind and relax even tho your ambitions are not sated by doing so.
Guitar is a good data point for me. I used to play the guitar very well. I don’t like playing solo, and don’t have the time or energy for a band. About once or twice a month I do a maintenance level practice where I run through the open chords and play a song or two.
I like doing creative things, and the mental release I get from them. I also look at the adage that it takes 10k hours to get good at something. Working on becoming an artist, man, that’s a big time sink. More so than gaming, I think.
You can do the same with books, tv and music though. We are all familiar with the techniques, the cliffhanger, the heroic structure, the 4 on the floor etc. All these things are designed to make the work more addictive.
I wont bother posting the google searches here but “how to make your book, script, music more addictive” brings up a ton of techniques, you can substitute "engaging or “compelling” for even more results. Heck there is even a Guardian article talking about people “addicted” to books.
The question comes down to this - is there something so great about games/interactive art that they are such a powerful art form they can compel humans to enjoy them against their will?
Thats the case those who claim games can be engineered to be addictive are making. That I can make a game that compels you to play it even if you don’t want to. That my art form is superior to any other in the history of the world because it can actually addict you to enjoying it.
I think not.
I reject it because so far nobody has made any kind of plausible case for it. In fact there is enormous evidence you CANNOT do this. Not just the obvious facts of this forum itself. We are all super into games here, does anyone feel they are playing a game against their free will? I don’t and I have never met anyone who does. Not “other people” mind, we don’t allow that dodge. Are YOU (dear reader) playing a video game that has made you play it against your will?
In fact games history is littered with people who think they have figured out the “formula” for making games addictive. They usually peak a few years before the next games crash.
At least thats what happened in at least three crashes I saw up close (Atari, casual downloadables, facebook games). In each case games makers thought they had found a way to make money from games by a formula, in each case they quickly collapsed afterwards. Mobile games should be treading very carefully right now.
So no, the addiction argument needs to step up with some actual evidence if it wants to be taken seriously. Otherwise it simply looks like the latest disconnect between those in politics/the press/the culturally irrelevant who do not enjoy something and are assuming that it has some black magic powers that compels others to do it. They are wrong, they are always wrong.
I don’t think video game are different than any other activity in that regard. Some people may watch too much TV , some play video games etc…
But there is some subset of the population that finds it difficult to moderate these things and not get consumed by them. I don’t know what to call it. It’s basically a lack of willpower on my part. I don’t think the games make me play against my will, I just choose to play them more than is probably a healthy habit.
Gaming isn’t the same as books, TV or music. You’re a participant in gaming (usually, and within confines, but a participant).
And if the definition for being addictive is that you do the thing even if you don’t want to, you don’t find it enjoyable, then yeah, gaming probably isn’t addictive. But by that definition not much is, is it? I’m not exactly an expert, but I assume heroin addicts enjoy doing heroin, at least at the start, before becoming dependent on the chemicals. Smokers certainly enjoy smoking. I like coffee. Sex addicts I assume enjoy sex. Etc.
And if we’re going to compare, TV or books are fair. So’s gambling, and gambling is usually recognized as being problematic. I think we can agree that video gaming has more than just a few similarities with gambling, games of skill and luck, a reward at the end (imagined in gaming, but still).
I’m not going to say that it’s addictive in the same way cocaine is addictive, but I can feel the pull. I’m not talking Civ “where has the day gone”, I’m talking login rewards, timed stuff that you have one shot to do, etc. Maybe it’s just good design. Maybe it’s the result of figuring out how to keep humans on a rat wheel, whatever it is, it can be addictive.
Probably.
Not quite addictive, but it can be very hard to stop sometimes.
I can be playing twh2 athe 1 or 2 in the morning and be perfectly aware that I need to wake up early and I’m storing up consequences. …and yet still play for another hr.
Twice in the last week I’ve stopped because my eyes were literally almost too heavy to keep open, and gone to bed wihout brushing my teeth or cleaning myself, or even putting my clothes away, just leaving them in a pile on the bedroom floor.
I don’t think that’s an addiction, but there’s a certain compulsion that games give, and I think it is to do with engaging you as a participant in ways reading just doesn’t anymore.
Key word here though is any more.
I used to read a tonne of books. I don’t anymore. The last fiction book I recall reading was "The Lits of Locke Lamora "
Anyway I’m less into games than I used to be. Less time and more things to do that I value.
So, not addictive perse imho, but compulsive and something to monitor if you’re responsible for yourself and others.
If I had kids I’d very strictly limit their gaming time.
Edit : typing on a phone on a moving bus. Too many typos.
I’ve been giving this some thought lately. While addiction is probably too strong a word, I have been curious about the amount of time I spend gaming/surfing the web/etc. I consider being able to keep myself fed, have a clean house and clean laundry the equivalent of treading water. It’s a general baseline task for being a functioning adult.
I downloaded an app for my Mac (timings) that will automatically log how often an app is active. I’m also going to try Toggl for a month to track time spent on tasks I don’t use my Mac for. I use my iPad to write and draw with, work on school, etc. I’ll set up Toggle projects for writing, drawing, school, and playing PS4 games.
I’m going to run this through November and see what I get for data.
Anytime people talk about gaming being a “waste of time” or look down on my hobby I think of the Iris Dementt song “The Way I Should”
A cold wind against my shoulder woke me up in the middle of the night
An Autumn leaf was scraping against my window
Like it was trying hard to get inside
And then a ghost that I had met before he kept me up 'til dawn
And everything I thought was right was suddenly all wrong
He said, “Your score is looking pretty bad”
And then he asked me what it was that I had to show
So I went running down a list of things
Some were real, but on some of them I lied
'cause I felt I had to justify each breath that I’d been breathing in this life
Then I realized I was playing into someone else’s rules,
Trying to keep my score up in a game I did not choose
Then I looked that ghost straight in the eye
And said “You’d better not be coming back by again”
And it’s true that I don’t work near as hard
As you tell me that I’m supposed to
I don’t run as fast as I could
But I live just the way I want to
And that’s the way I should
October’s leaves were dancing 'round
Like angels dressed in robes of Red and Gold
But November’s come and gone now
And they’re lying in the gutter out along the road
They’re gonna make their way out to the ditch or someday to the sea,
They’ll get to where they’re going without the help of you or me
And if each life is just a grain of sand
I’m telling you man, this grain of sand is mine
And it’s true that I don’t work near as hard
As you tell me that I’m supposed to
I don’t run as fast as I could
But I live just the way I want to
And that’s the way I should
But I live just the way I want to
And that’s the way I should
I’ve not heard of her before but that was great. Now to go listen to the song…
I was reminded of Radiohead’s Fitter Happier:
Fitter, happier, more productive,
comfortable,
not drinking too much,
regular exercise at the gym
(3 days a week),
getting on better with your associate employee contemporaries,
at ease,
eating well
(no more microwave dinners and saturated fats),
a patient better driver,
a safer car
(baby smiling in back seat),
sleeping well
(no bad dreams),
no paranoia,
careful to all animals
(never washing spiders down the plughole),
keep in contact with old friends
(enjoy a drink now and then),
will frequently check credit at (moral) bank (hole in the wall),
favors for favors,
fond but not in love,
charity standing orders,
on Sundays ring road supermarket
(no killing moths or putting boiling water on the ants),
car wash
(also on Sundays),
no longer afraid of the dark or midday shadows
nothing so ridiculously teenage and desperate,
nothing so childish – at a better pace,
slower and more calculated,
no chance of escape,
now self-employed,
concerned (but powerless),
an empowered and informed member of society
(pragmatism not idealism),
will not cry in public,
less chance of illness,
tires that grip in the wet
(shot of baby strapped in back seat),
a good memory,
still cries at a good film,
still kisses with saliva,
no longer empty and frantic like a cat tied to a stick,
that’s driven into frozen winter shit
(the ability to laugh at weakness),
calm,
fitter,
healthier and more productive
a pig in a cage on antibiotics.
These days, I subconsciously play fewer games for fear of being disappointed. But in my old emulator days, I think I may have been addicted, but that may have been due more to the illicit nature of the emulation scene and getting games for “free”.
Are people who torrent everything addicted to torrenting more so than they are to the actual movies/games/music?
Interesting point about disappointment. I think I run across what I consider a truly great game maybe once every 2nd or 3rd year tops, sometimes longer. Most of what I play I consider just ok.
I suspect a part of this is due to playing games for so many years, but there’s also the advent of steam making for the ready availability of so many options causing a paradox of choice as well. All the gaming options I have available to me now creates the nagging sensation that what I’m currently playing or considering playing may not be the optimal choice.
I knew guys in college that had dedicated servers for torrenting games and movies that they never watched or played.
For me, I think the bar keeps getting raised for what gets called a great game. I think we’ve seen so many games, it takes something executed even better or something that brings a new idea for the game to really stand out. What would have been great games 10 years ago just seem like good games now.
I get the non optimal choice thing too. I struggle with it. I try to keep in mind that if I really think something is better then I don’t need to keep playing the current game - I just need to be prepared I probably won’t come back to it.
Yeah, I mean the key I guess is to not let what your other choices are impede enjoying what you’re currently playing.
That said, and just as you mentioned, if you really feel what you’re playing isn’t as much fun as something else you could be playing, play that instead. That’s exactly what I did with DOS2, I made it through I think maybe 2/3’s of the game and stopped because I’d rather be playing Warhammer 2 or Xcom2:WOTC. For me at least, I know better than to ever try playing an RPG again.
Saw a post worth sharing about Final Fantasy Brave Exvius. Gacha game on phones.
TLDR - Gambled away over 15000$
That is a sad story for sure.
For one of my classes, I came across this video about addiction, which I thought would be interesting to share here.
TLDR - from what I understood of the video, “addiction” is a misfiring of the need to form bonds and networks. Form proper ones, with loved ones etc, and the addiction never manifests.
I had never thought about it, but I play less than prior to meeting my wife. It’s not simply that I don’t have time: I like games, but I don’t get absorbed into them as much as I used to. One hour is the most I can play of any game at a time. Some genres I was fond of (RPGs), I litterally can’t stand anymore.
My wife, though, has been spending most of her time gaming since we met. Should I be worried?!!
Only if she is beating you at Twilight Struggle.