Still haven’t forgotten what he did to the Redbirds in the 2004 World Series, but best wishes to a spectacularly entertaining player all the same.
Indeed. His Green Monster Games project aside, his next stop should be HOF (first ballot). Love him or hate him, he was at his best when it mattered most. Also, one of only a handful of star athletes to get outspoken at times; for which I applaud him.
I think a HOF with Schilling is better than one without, but I’m not sure I’d go with first ballot, sure-thing. As great as he was, his overall numbers–ignoring post-season accomplishments–don’t guarantee him a spot, at least using some of the older counting numbers (i.e. “need 300 wins”). I mean, is Kevin Brown a hall of famer? How about Orel Hershisher? Both have similar career stats.
Schilling gets a bump for post season, though a similar argument could be made for Hershisher. Schilling’s stats are also remarkably similar to John Smoltz, who I do think is a hall-of-famer. I’d personally vote for the dude, and I think his heroic performance in the 2004 post-season probably guaranteed him a spot, but it probably won’t be a slam dunk a la Ricky Henderson this year, or when Greg Maddux is eligible.
Of course counting stats aren’t everything. Pedro Martinez is a 100%, first-ballot HOFer, but doesn’t even have the counting stats of Schilling. His peak, however, was higher than any other pitcher in MLB history.
I’m voting with my heart obviously, but I think you see where I’m coming from and even agree to an extent in principle. Actually, what might work against him the most is his long running feud with many baseball writers; the very ones who vote for HOF.
I grew up with that sort of old-school purist mindset that you needed to have so many HRs or so many Ws and then your ticket to the HOF was as good as punched. (Then came the ‘wonder years’ with juiced stats blowing those milestones out of the water.) But the older I get the more I want to rebel against the writers who fill the HOF with ‘stat compilers’… guys who muddle along for 20 years or so, stay relatively free of injury, who almost never distinguish themselves in any 5 or 10 year stretch, guys who’s teams never win all that much. In the end, what you said is perfect: A HOF with Schilling is better than one without him.
I think the bloody sock episode will tip the scales for a first ballot. It’s still fresh in the mind for voters and let’s face it, it was pretty badass.
I’ll be very surprised if he gets in on anything later than his second ballot. Debating the quality of his stats is meaningless, because the BBWAA has consistently shown that, as a voting group, they don’t pay attention to stats in any useful way. World Series Rings! Bloody Sock! Someone start engraving the plaque!
Ironically, I think Pedro’s probably going to have a harder time.
Probably gets a lift for not being a steroid user, too.
Hell, the sock is already in.
There are plenty of 200+ win pitchers who you can make a case for who aren’t there, like Bert Blyleven. His counting stats are better than Schilling’s, but he’s not in the hall. Look at how long it took Jim “Most Feared Hitter of the late 70s” Rice. His stats weren’t deemed worthy, even if his legend was. (And he still shouldn’t be in there, but whatever.)
Ironically, I think Pedro’s probably going to have a harder time.
Totally disagree. First ballot lock. His peak is better than any pitcher in history, better than Koufax even, and everyone gets that.
Not to mention multiple Cy Youngs, the “he shoulda won MVP in 99,” the best stats pitching season in history in 2000 (1.74 ERA when the average league era was over 5!), no steroid taint, big games against the Yankees (pre “Daddy” comment), Red Sox bias vote, etc.
The 2013 ballot is going to be interesting, with Schilling, Bonds, Clemens, Biggio, Piazza, Sosa, and Lofton all on the ballot for the first time.
First ballot is my guess.
2nd ballot, nope, nope, nope, yep, yep, nope, and nope.
Thank you, Curt, for giving me another Red Sox pitcher to admire after Clemens took my fond childhood devotion and threw it in the trash, first by joining the damn Yankees and then by doping…
Well, but that’s my point. The argument against Blyleven by those who won’t vote for him is usually something like “well, he just never seemed like a big deal when he was playing.” These are the same people who aren’t going to be able to vote for Curt “Big Game” Schilling fast enough.
Totally disagree. First ballot lock. His peak is better than any pitcher in history, better than Koufax even, and everyone gets that.
Not to mention multiple Cy Youngs, the “he shoulda won MVP in 99,” the best stats pitching season in history in 2000 (1.74 ERA when the average league era was over 5!), no steroid taint, big games against the Yankees (pre “Daddy” comment), Red Sox bias vote, etc.
Yeah, upon reflection, you’re right. Never mind.
It’s funny. Hockey players get their teeth knocked out and get stitched up and play later in the same game. Football players basically play hurt most of the season. Baseball players, though, they get an injury and continue to play and it’s like they are Profiles in Courage.
Read Tim Kurkjian’s baseball book, since he makes some essential points about baseball players, who happen to be very tough and very courageous after all. Ask Brian Jordan–who was an All-Pro NFL safety with the Falcons before becoming an All-Star outfielder with the Cardinals and Braves which is scarier: catching a punt knowing you’re about to be crushed by special teams crazies, or standing in the batter’s box when a guy like Mitch Williams was pitching, throwing 99-mph fastballs with no real clue as to where they were going. He’ll tell you he’d take football any time, because you can get hurt catching that punt…but you can get killed or maimed by a baseball.
Fair enough. I think it was the fact that they had to suture his tendon to his ankle on a temporary basis just so he could pitch that caused people to feel he went above and beyond. (Sutures that ripped out during the course of the game.) It’s not exactly like having a sore shoulder and gritting it out for a few innings.
Personally I say post-season heroics put him over the top, but I don’t see Schilling as any kind of lock for the HOF. I mean, he was what, maybe the eighth or ninth best pitcher of his generation? Classic bubble case. Again, post-season puts him over the top.
OTOH, I think everyone who says that the BBWAA will break their stick wrists filling in that oval is absolutely right. And we wouldn’t even be having this conversation if he’d never gone to Boston. The general media fellatio of the east coast franchises is unbelievable (though it’s getting better as the new generation of writers takes over).
You guys know it’s called the Hall of Fame and not the Hall of Stats, right?
Well shit, let’s punch John Rocker’s ticket right now then! He’s more famous than the entire current Braves team combined.