You guys know it’s called the Hall of Fame and not the Hall of Infamy, right?
How do you measure fame?
By number of Hall of Fame votes.
You realize that you’re endorsing the BBWAA as some kind of useful arbiter of baseball things, right? That is a bridge I am so not crossing.
This thread is a good argument for pushing back the induction eligibility date from 5 years to 10 years. Given some of the comments tossed around in this thread, it seems like some time to reflect and consider would be good for Schilling and his supporters / non-supporters.
I’m just saying they don’t meet every year and decide on a set of stats as a minimum requirement and then whoever gets past that is automatically in.
Things you didn’t know about Curt Schilling!
He has the best ratio of unearned runs to plate appearances in baseball history.
He holds the major league record for consecutive starts without allowing an unearned run, at 69 games (breaking his own record of 53).
He has 64 starts where he struck out 7 or more batters while walking none, the most in the majors over at least the past 52 years.
In his career, Schilling faced eleven different batters that now reside in the Hall of Fame (not including pitchers) and held them to a .259 average (42-162) with 3 HR.
In 2002, Schilling struck out 316 and walked only 33 for a 9.58 strikeout/walk ratio, the highest ratio by any pitcher since 1900 with 300+ strikeouts.
In conclusion, statistics are fun.
The insane K/BB ratios that prime-period Schilling would put up are the single stat that I think is most incredible (and HoF-worthy) about him, but I think the significance is lost on laymen.
Think about the greatest strikeout pitchers in baseball’s modern age, and you’re thinking of Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson. Both guys intimidated and scared the living shit out of batters because both guys were (at least early on) wild as hell, and even in their primes walked a lot of batters. Strikeout pitchers have to walk people. When batters went in against Nolan Ryan or peak Randy Johnson, they had no idea not only what pitch was coming, but also where it was going. It could be right at their heads at 100 mph, or it could be down and away in the dirt, and either way you had less than a millisecond to decide whether to swing. Point being, as a batter you could never, not ever, get comfortable hitting against those two pitchers.
With Schilling, batters went into the box absolutely knowing that Schill did NOT want to walk them. As a batter, you know you were going to see pitches that were in the strike zone. Constantly in the zone. Sure, he’d go outside the zone to see if you’d fish, but you knew that and he knew that, and that’s how it was. I wouldn’t say that every strikeout, or even 75% of the K’s he recorded were on pitches in the zone, but I would feel comfortable saying that Curt Schilling probably struck out more batters on pitches in the strike zone than any post-1968 (when the pitching mound was lowered and the strike zone shrunk) pitcher in the game. Think about that for a minute: as a hitter, you have a much better general idea of where the pitch is going to be against Schilling…and he’s still whiffing people like Bugs Bunny in that cartoon. That is some kind of amazing accomplishment.
Do you adjust for era? Like HOFV+? How about park adjusted, or better yet, home city adjusted?
Without some help, Lord Albert Pujols will never be as famous as any Yankee or Red Sox player, so he’s clearly out of the Hall. And it’s not like anyone would even notice if Greg Maddux was standing next to them, so he’s out.
Don’t put Johnson in with Ryan. When he finally became awesome, his walks dropped to the 60-70 range, with tons of innings.
Another interesting thing about a strike thrower like Schilling is that he gave up a lot of home runs, like 25-35 a season. People might be surprised by that kind of number, but since he didn’t walk anyone, it was a ton of solo shots. Big whoop.
Think about that for a minute: as a hitter, you have a much better general idea of where the pitch is going to be against Schilling…and he’s still whiffing people like Bugs Bunny in that cartoon. That is some kind of amazing accomplishment.
Yup, though I gotta give the Bugs Bunny pitcher to prime Pedro with that change-up. I once watched him throw it five straight times to Edgar Martinez, who pulled each one foul until striking out on the sixth straight one. I mean, six change-ups? Really?
Right, but Johnson still had a reputation (and he’d do it every once in a while in a game) of unleashing a fastball that just sailed to the backstop nowhere near anything, just to sort of freak batters out and give them happy feat. Schilling always had the rep of being right around the plate.
Yup, though I gotta give the Bugs Bunny pitcher to prime Pedro with that change-up. I once watched him throw it five straight times to Edgar Martinez, who pulled each one foul until striking out on the sixth straight one. I mean, six change-ups? Really?
ESPN showed a super slow-mo of that changeup. At the top of his arm swing forward of his pitching arm, Pedro would actually be spinning the ball with his fingertips, completely whacking it all kerflooey. He held it and threw it with the same motion as his fastball, but because he was spinning the ball with his fingertips in that half-second he was bringing the ball forward, no one could pick it up, much less hit it.
Pedro was a freaking artist at his peak. Dear god. I mean, I will always be a huge Johan Santana fan for obvious reasons, and I loved nothing better than to watch suckers get utterly fooled by his circle-change. And Johan could only approach Pedro for a few months at a time (July-September for like 3 years saw him with a sub-2.00 ERA). Pedro did it for what, 4 years running?
Unreal.
I’ve seen a ton of great pitchers in person over the years. Schilling is HoF without a doubt.
As for Pedro- in his prime - 98-03 he was the best I’ve ever seen with my eyes. bitter than the rocket, better than RJ. If Sandy Koufax is in the HoF i have no doubt that Petey is.
And Derek Jeter is a great fielder. I’ve seen him makes tons of great plays!
That’s why we use stats. Seeing 'em in person is one thing. Looking at their career with a fairly neutral eye is the best way to tell greatness. And by that measure, Schilling is probably a HOFer, but not a "without a doubt"er.
As for Pedro- in his prime - 98-03 he was the best I’ve ever seen with my eyes.
In that case, your eyes were actually telling you the truth. His 99 and 00 seasons are two of the best ever when adjusted for era.