"Good Old Games"

[TimJames]

That said, I’m not sure the circle of 8 patch is particularly helpful when discussing using the engine but making an entirely new game.

Pfft, people have been saying that for years whenever ToEE comes up. What I really want to discuss is how the starting town is so boring.

[peterb]

Don’t hate me for posting this. I make absolutely no promises that this is in any way playable. I haven’t tried it. I haven’t installed it. All I know about it is from this one forum thread I read. But:

A (demo) mod for ToEE that purports to implement classic D&D Module B2 “The Keep on the Borderlands”. Also known as “the first module you probably ever saw.”

Talk amongst yourselves. I’m getting verklempt.

[Hanacker]

It has a bizzare opening. 95% of the game is pure combat, but the first 5% of the game is nothing but tedious fetch quests in the starting town. The quests are optional but they give you xp. Very strange decision to put all the non-combat quests in row at the start of the game. If they were spread over the games length they would have been fine.

Can you get to level 2 or 3 before starting combat? Avoiding level 1 D&D combat might be a decent reason for doing so.

[peacedog]

Pfft, people have been saying that for years whenever ToEE comes up. What I really want to discuss is how the starting town is so boring.

I know what people say, but that’s not particularly relevant. I’m talking about the technical aspects; the presence of a fan patch does not make an engine suddenly more licenseable.

[Disconnected]

Can you get to level 2 or 3 before starting combat? Avoiding level 1 D&D combat might be a decent reason for doing so.

If memory serves, you should be able to get to level 2 with a party of four. A cheatier way of doing the same is to start off with just one character and postpone adding more until you’ve gained a level or two. It may also be possible to grant your party a level with some kind of console cheat. I’ve never tried, but it’s usually possible in CRPGs and I wouldn’t feel bad about it in this particular case. Hommel is the definition of mind numbing.

[Robert_Sharp]

Keep on the Borderlands!? OMG, if that mod works, I’ll definitely buy this game. I never got into the temple proper in ToEE (and I still have the game and manual here), because of that stupid intro. I’m honestly not sure I can work my way through it to get to the good parts at this point. But B2!?

I would prefer X2 or B3, btw, for any out there thinking about making a similar mod. Thanks!

[Hanacker]

So assuming I’m agnostic about Turn Based vs Pausable Real Time, and just wanted to roll some 3rd edition DnD characters and fight some monsters, is ToEE or IWD2 the better game?

[peterb]

ToEE feels like the better 3E D&D combat sim, but IWD2 is a better everything else (especially if you factor in bugs).

Note that I actively dislike IWD2, so that I’m willing to say this gives you some idea of the breadth and depth of ToEE’s flaws. But if you zero in to “which game more accurately feels like an invisible magical DM is actually running me through the a 3E D&D combat”, then that’s ToEE.

[Dan_Theman]

Just to clarify, they’re both pausable real time with turn based mechanics. Wow, that’s a mouthful. You’ll just find yourself choosing the “pause every turn” option quite often.

I preferred ToEE thanks to the Co8 mod, but you really have two excellent choices.

[Disconnected]

ToEE. Along with Knights of The Chalice (which I also recommend, with the caveat that you need a high tolerance for graphical fugliness to enjoy it), it is the most exact and comprehensive adaptation of D&D3.5 - quite unlike IWD2.

IWD1 has better encounters, but ToEE & KoTC almost makes up for it by virtue of their vastly better combat mechanics. IWD2… It’s a great game, not as good as IWD1, ToEE or KoTC.

[Khoram]

Just to clarify, they’re both pausable real time with turn based mechanics. Wow, that’s a mouthful. You’ll just find yourself choosing the “pause every turn” option quite often.

I preferred ToEE thanks to the Co8 mod, but you really have two excellent choices.

What? TOEE isn’t pausable real time with turn based mechanics. Each character goes one at a time. There’s even the order of initiative shown at the top of the screen. Then for each character’s turn, you have the whole 3E quick action/normal action/full round action stuff, all shown through the little green/yellow/red gauge that shows how much action you have left.

[Dan_Theman]

What? TOEE isn’t pausable real time with turn based mechanics. Each character goes one at a time. There’s even the order of initiative shown at the top of the screen. Then for each character’s turn, you have the whole 3E quick action/normal action/full round action stuff, all shown through the little green/yellow/red gauge that shows how much action you have left.

That was poorly put on my part - I was trying to get across that the action plays itself out in a very similar way to my style of play with Infinity engine games: pause, issue commands, unpause and watch, pause, issue commands, etc…

[DTG]

Was ToEE the game that when it first shipped had a bug that formatted your C: drive or somesuch if you didn’t install it to the default directory and then tried to uninstall it? I think I recall a patch that you had to install BEFORE installing the game to make sure that didn’t happen. Or am I thinking of another game? I think I held off on buying ToEE when it came out because of this, and only got it years later in a bargin bin (but have not played yet).

Regardless, I assume that’s been fixed in the GOG version. Time to try it out.

[Dan_Theman]

Was ToEE the game that when it first shipped had a bug that formatted your C: drive or somesuch if you didn’t install it to the default directory and then tried to uninstall it? I think I recall a patch that you had to install BEFORE installing the game to make sure that didn’t happen. Or am I thinking of another game? I think I held off on buying ToEE when it came out because of this, and only got it years later in a bargin bin (but have not played yet).

Nooooo. It had a lot of technical bugs which got better with the first two patches and then the third created a couple more that were never (officially) fixed.

Regardless, I assume that’s been fixed in the GOG version. Time to try it out.
Agreed - give it a spin. You can’t go too wrong for $6.

PS - the game you’re thinking of is Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor, which would damage your system files should you not apply the patch before uninstalling.

[Gendal]

Was ToEE the game that when it first shipped had a bug that formatted your C: drive or somesuch if you didn’t install it to the default directory and then tried to uninstall it? I think I recall a patch that you had to install BEFORE installing the game to make sure that didn’t happen. Or am I thinking of another game? I think I held off on buying ToEE when it came out because of this, and only got it years later in a bargin bin (but have not played yet).

Regardless, I assume that’s been fixed in the GOG version. Time to try it out.

You are thinking of pool of radiance, which you are quite safe never thinking about again.

[LionelThompson]

PS - the game you’re thinking of is Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor, which would damage your system files should you not apply the patch before uninstalling.

It was Myth 2 or 3 that would delete your hard drive if you installed to the non-default directory.

As for TOEE, I’ve been reading all over and tested character creation last night, I assume I do not need the Version 2 patch on the GOG version of TOEE before I add the Circle of 8 patch?

[Charlatan]

I solve those sort of uninstall bugs by never ever uninstalling anything from my hard drive. When it fills up - get another! When that fills up, it’s time to get a new computer.

[Eric_P]

As for TOEE, I’ve been reading all over and tested character creation last night, I assume I do not need the Version 2 patch on the GOG version of TOEE before I add the Circle of 8 patch?

I couldn’t get the version 2 patch to work at all. it kept saying “no ToEE, ANY, found” or some such even after allowing the exe to work.

So I applied it over the “shipped” version from GoG but I don’t know if that will really affect the game itself.

[Dan_Theman]

It was Myth 2 or 3 that would delete your hard drive if you installed to the non-default directory.

Wow - you’re right. I always thought Pool of Radiance was the game people were thinking of whenever they made this reference, becuase the issue was so similar. As for Myth II, I guess I managed to thankfully avoid that problem. Well, should you ever be in the mood for old school DnD, avoid uninstalling Ruins of Myth Drannor without the patch as well.

I’m guessing these games were made before QA was invented?

As for TOEE, I’ve been reading all over and tested character creation last night, I assume I do not need the Version 2 patch on the GOG version of TOEE before I add the Circle of 8 patch?

I honestly haven’t tried the GOG version with ToEE just yet, although it seems as if people are anecdotally installing the Co8 mod without any “unpatching” involved when they get it. No special error reports as of yet (outside of those you might get in any beta version of a mod - the occasional typo and what not).

[nogwart]

I honestly haven’t tried the GOG version with ToEE just yet, although it seems as if people are anecdotally installing the Co8 mod without any “unpatching” involved when they get it. No special error reports as of yet (outside of those you might get in any beta version of a mod - the occasional typo and what not).

I installed the GOG version last night with the Co8 mod, and I did not use any of the patches listed. Getting around Norton’s identifying TOEE.exe as a virus was the only complication (had to disable anti-virus scans for 15-minutes, install, then exclude the game directory from scans). It’s working fine on my Win-7 64-bit PC now.