"Good Old Games"

[bjbrains]

Yea. ToEE’s main problem (beyond the now-fixed bugs) was the slog of the early game before you got to the fun mid-level combat that makes up most of the game past Hommlet. That’s really a flaw with 3.5 D&D though (Hence why 4E has a separate starting HP, along with its 9000 other balance/pacing fixes).

[WarrenD]

Incidentally, ToEE has plenty of mid-level combat. The main part of the game starts around level 5-6 (when you hit the temple). The bad bit is that the game is mostly terrible up to that point. The good bit is it’s mostly brilliant past that point. Which makes it a largely brilliant game with a really crappy beginning.

I recently bought both ToEE and IWD having not played either before and modded them both up with the widescreen mods and all the fan patches and tweaks. IWD has hooked me right away fighting for all my playing time with Nehrim, but I’ve been struggling to get into ToEE.

I had fun rolling up my party and equipping everyone but when I got to Hommlet it has been very tedious, had a couple of fights in the Moathouse and still getting used to the interface. The game looks great, better than IWD by a little, but the dullness so far always ends my gaming session prematurely and then back to IWD.
So listening to most people here I will try to make it to the actual Temple itself and hopefully discover that brilliant game that will give IWD a run for the money.

[Tony_M]

Incidentally, ToEE has plenty of mid-level combat. The main part of the game starts around level 5-6 (when you hit the temple). The bad bit is that the game is mostly terrible up to that point. The good bit is it’s mostly brilliant past that point. Which makes it a largely brilliant game with a really crappy beginning.

I found the low level combat fascinating because attacks of opportunity make the difference between life and death. At higher levels you and your opponents have more hit points and more atttacks. So one extra attack of opportunity is not as big a deal.

The fetch quests in the starting town are rubbish though.

One thing I really like about TOEE is how it focuses on levels 3-10. Those are the most interesting levels in the DnD system IMO, both in pen and paper and in computer games.

Tony

[Ben_Sones]

Hommlet is one of those adventures that just doesn’t translate well to video game format, I think. The original module is fairly non-linear and open-ended, and basically presents the village as a set-piece that the players can explore at will, with various little adventures into the surrounding countryside that they can uncover, alongside a number of mysteries and intrigues unfolding in the village. I loved the AD&D module, but all that stuff really needs a human DM to run it properly, I think. It’s more like a collection of adventure seeds than an explicit adventure, really.

[Eric_P]

I bought IWD last night but am unable to discover if there are any absolutely needed fan patches. Anyone know?

[Quitch]

The Assorted Fixes section of the Tweak Pack perhaps, but nothing else comes to mind.

[TimJames]

I applied that tweak pack last night before I realized the widescreen mod wouldn’t work. There are some major balance changes, so be sure you tell the installer to bring the readme up so you can pick and choose what you want to install when it asks you. Nothing too hard to decide.

[Paul_cze]

Sorry to interrupt, but…gotta love gog and its users

[BrianRubin]

Wooooow, who made that? It’s awesome!

[Paul_cze]

ninjadodo from gog.com forums
and won PCGamer subscription for it.
and yeah I love it. Wish GOG would use it for reals.

[BrianRubin]

Well deserved, if you ask me. Wowie.

[maxle]

It makes a huge differences for casters. In D&D proper, casting spells is instantaneous, whereas in a Baldurs Gate style game, casting spells takes time. This is most important for AOE spells which are sort of broken in those style games (if transferred directly from D&D). Those spells were balanced in D&D by the fact that they can hit party members, so your group needs to work together to make sure you only hit enemies, making the spells effective less often. In BG2, you can either play by the default rules that make AOE spells not hit party members (thus making them quite a bit more powerful) or with the “core” rules where they do hit party-members, but because your party members move after you begin casting the spell, they will almost certainly run into your line of fire, making managing those spells basically impossible.

Are you sure friendly fire is off by default? I’m pretty sure I never upped the difficulty during any of my various playthroughs (I wasn’t very good at the game), and I’m damn sure my fireballs always inflicted friendly fire.

[WarrenD]

Friendly fire is definitely not off by default in IWD.

[JDSIDD]

Friendly fire is definitely not off by default in IWD.

True. Last night a friendly color spray knocked out my entire party.

[Matt_Bowyer]

It’s one of my five favorite games ever, but if I rounded a corner in a museum and saw The Nameless One’s face that large, I would scream like a JRPG heroine.

[Disconnected]

One thing I really like about TOEE is how it focuses on levels 3-10. Those are the most interesting levels in the DnD system IMO, both in pen and paper and in computer games.

I think most people agree the various versions of D&D have always worked best in the level 3-12 range. It’s not all that strange either. The problem is the various incarnations pre 4th edition use wildly dissimilar level scaling of everything from ability score modifiers to the number of dice rolled and the number of sides the dice have. The 3-12 level range is simply the range where the most of the procedures used to generate outcomes have the least balance issues.

@ Eric P: have a look at UB IWD and HoWIDS. I have never tried IWD NPCs, but it might be worth checking out.

[Hanacker]

I kinda like high level D&D combat, but it definitely requires work to get it at all balanced.

[Talorc]

The GOG forums have a discussion on recommended mods for IWD:

http://www.gog.com/en/forum/icewind_dale/mod_guide/page1

1. Widescreen Mod
   Sharper graphics on moderns LCDs. No additional GUI mod is needed, as IWD was designed with a more scalable interface than most other Infinity Engine releases.

2. Unfinished Business for Icewind Dale
   Restores and finishes content cut from the original release, hence it blends with the original game perfectly. Stable, fun & professional.

3. Item Upgrade for Icewind Dale
   Adds the ability to upgrade your equipment. Definitely fun for crafters!

4. Icewind Dale Tweak Pack
   Adds bugfixes, minor cosmetic tweaks, cheats, ruleset tweaks.

Optional

Auril’s Bane
Adds new items, spells, a quest, new creatures, new AI scripts and more. Can modify the feel of the game a bit, so I recommend holding off for a first-time playthrough. Works best if installed before the tweak pack. Overall very fun and high quality mod.

Icewind Dale NPCs
Don’t want to make your own party? Check out these premade, chattering NPCs. Not ideal for tacticians and powergamers, perhaps, but if you want a bigger dose of roleplaying in IWD, this mod will make you happy. Best installed before Tweak Pack.

Full Plate & Packing Steel
Changes the AD&D 2e Armor rules so that light armors give you a better chance to dodge and heavy armors absorb damage. This is as opposed to heavy armors decreasing the chance you get hit.

I set the widescreen to 1680 x1050, but it is a little too small now (native res of my monitor). I think I will try 1280 x 800, hoping to get in a good play session tonight once I have created party!

[Quitch]

Oooo, Icewind Dale NPCs, I didn’t know about that one. I think that’ll help me make it to the end for once.

[WarrenD]

I set the widescreen to 1680 x1050, but it is a little too small now (native res of my monitor). I think I will try 1280 x 800, hoping to get in a good play session tonight once I have created party!

1280 x 800 was the sweet spot for me, sharpens everything up nicely but still keeps things big enough.