"Good Old Games"

Midnight_Son · 2011-05-12T04:19:02.000Z

Sebmojo:

By any reasonable understanding of the term, no it’s not.

Uh yeah, it is.

Robert_Sharp · 2011-05-12T04:41:45.000Z

Hmmm…I joined GoG 666 days ago. I should get a copy of Painkiller or something.

Dan_Theman · 2011-05-12T04:47:28.000Z

I’d argue that it’s effectively a form of DRM, but technically it is clearly not. There is no guarantee of patches for anyone (the company could close up shop the next day), so you got what you paid for without any restrictions on its use. However, there is an informal understanding among consumers that patches will be supplied as needed along with any game release and that the inability to obtain them without registration still serves to inhibit the transfer of rights to the product.

Fenris99 · 2011-05-12T04:49:51.000Z

Anyone who thinks that is DRM clearly hasn’t dealt with the real thing, like say, limited installs, signing into an online server every time you want to play, or rootkits on your hard drive.

Just looks like whining, sorry.

Dan_Theman · 2011-05-12T04:51:47.000Z

I believe you’re conflating DRM with draconian DRM.

Budvar · 2011-05-12T04:52:20.000Z

instant0:

In terms of DRM it is the lowest form of DRM I could think of.
Basically, you need to register to get updates.

So, apart from those updates requiring their launcher, the game does not install any invasive system drivers, infects your DVD-player and breaks compatibility with other stuff, nor does it prohibit you from running Daemon Tools or Alcohol 120%, or anything else. Nor does it prevent you from having a debugger running on your system or attempting to use one on the game while it is running.

That sounds pretty DRM-free to me, at least in terms of what DRM usually means on the PC platform (unfortunately).

Yeah. Well “lowest form of DRM” isn’t “DRM-free”.

It’s restricts my ability to patch the game, which is pretty damn important. Almost EVERY game needs patches, and the Witcher 1 was certainly no different. That certainly is a form of rights management. I have to authenticate online for the right to patch. How exactly is this any different from having to authenticate online for the right to play? It’s inevitable that the game will need patches, so inevitably, I will have to authenticate my game with their servers. That is certainly a form of DRM.

Once again, I have no problem with the reason or the rationale. But it is not DRM-free. It is a pretty low impact form of DRM. But that’s not what they marketed their version to be, and ultimately that’s not what I chose to pay for.

I have been a member of GoG for about 3 years now, and have bought a number of their older titles. I don’t need to be authenticated to the GoG servers to apply patches to any of these titles. GoG had a pretty clear definition of “DRM-free” that they have been working from for some time now. The subtle change in application without any notice or clarification is disingenuous.

Midnight_Son · 2011-05-12T04:52:36.000Z

Conflation, how does it work?

Fenris99 · 2011-05-12T04:57:29.000Z

You mean I need to log in to GOG to download my games? OMG, it’s a sneaky DRM!!11!!!

Dan_Theman · 2011-05-12T04:58:32.000Z

Midnight Son:

Conflation, how does it work?

Well played, good sir!

instant0 · 2011-05-12T05:00:06.000Z

Yes; I agree it is a form of Rights/Restriction Management, but considering what we usually have these days it is certainly a step in the right(s) direction.

I’m installing the DVD version now, so I’ll let you know if the GOG version is the better alternative as soon as I launch the game.

If I’m asked for a dongle-in-drive its time to look up GCW or hang around on seedy internet sites for an .exe that works.

Budvar · 2011-05-12T05:05:13.000Z

Dan_Theman:

I’d argue that it’s effectively a form of DRM, but technically it is clearly not. There is no guarantee of patches for anyone (the company could close up shop the next day), so you got what you paid for without any restrictions on its use. However, there is an informal understanding among consumers that patches will be supplied as needed along with any game release and that the inability to obtain them without registration still serves to inhibit the transfer of rights to the product.

Can you imagine a situation where a game is released with a release-day bug that limits you from leaving the first area? You can’t proceed unless you patch the game, which requires online authentication. There are plenty of DRM schemes that allow you to do many things, but have one particular restriction. The restriction to patch is “technically” a type of DRM, precisely because it can be an “effective” DRM scheme.

And I’m not sure about you, but when I purchase software, I purchase a working product. It’s a bit rich to say that there is no guarantee of patches, when the very reason patches exist is because the software was not working properly in the first place. The only reason it seems like an informal agreement is that the retail software consumer has very few rights. I can’t return a PC game that doesn’t work, so my only recourse hope the developers have some consideration for what they do.

Budvar · 2011-05-12T05:06:15.000Z

Fenris99:

You mean I need to log in to GOG to download my games? OMG, it’s a sneaky DRM!!11!!!

Yeah, you don’t need to log in GoG to apply patches to games though. Funny that.

Fenris99 · 2011-05-12T05:08:58.000Z

Budvar:

Yeah, you don’t need to log in GoG to apply patches to games though. Funny that.

I thought their games were generally pre-patched though.

Is a patched version of TW2 going to be available for download?

malkav11 · 2011-05-12T05:16:09.000Z

Budvar:

Yeah, you don’t need to log in GoG to apply patches to games though. Funny that.

GoG’s usual games have long since received their final patch.

Budvar · 2011-05-12T05:18:23.000Z

malkav11:

GoG’s usual games have long since received their final patch.

Actually not all. Some not so old games receive patches afterwards. And some games are frozen at certain patches for compatibility reasons.

Fenris99 · 2011-05-12T05:21:12.000Z

OK, as per GOG itself:

Eventually, when the final patch (though as far as I can tell TW2 is extremely polished) is released, we will update our installer to the latest version and reupload the game…

So if you wait until the game is fully patched, you can download it without registering for patches. No “DRM”.

Happy now?

instant0 · 2011-05-12T05:23:47.000Z

Hmm… DVD Version requires me to enter an Activation Key.
When Entered it just closes.
Launching the exe tells me the game can not be started before Tuesday, May 17, 2011.
Adjusting the time to May 19th I am asked to run the Launcher application, which attempts to connect to gw.thewitcher.dot360.pl with a post argument of lang=EN&type=activate&release=ROW … and the page response is 403 Forbidden.

Good times.

Budvar · 2011-05-12T05:26:11.000Z

Fenris99:

I thought their games were generally pre-patched though.

Is a patched version of TW2 going to be available for download?

From what I have read, there will be no standalone patches until the end of the patch cycle. Which could be fairly short, or, if we look at Witcher 1, quite some time. I’m guessing the DVD versions will also be patched using online authentication, and that the other digital distribution methods.

You will be able to backup the originally downloaded files, but not the patches.

Budvar · 2011-05-12T05:40:51.000Z

Fenris99:

OK, as per GOG itself:

So if you wait until the game is fully patched, you can download it without registering for patches. No “DRM”.

Happy now?

Seriously mate, you completely missed my point. Perhaps you didn’t read my original posts. The game was marketed as DRM free at release. I buy all my new games from Steam, which is in my mind the best implemented DRM/digital distribution system out there. I wasn’t planning on buying this for a few months, but I wanted to support a publisher that claimed to be releasing this DRM free, so I bought it at (pre)release. Otherwise, I would have bought this in July or August at most probably a lower price from the DD system I prefer. The DRM free angle certainly factored into my purchasing decision.

I have numerous emails saying that GoG is the only place to get this 100% DRM free. That’s quite different from “eventually 100% DRM free”.

BTW, how many years do you think it was until the Witcher 1 was “fully patched”? Ultimately, it’s in the hands of the studio to decide that, and it could easily be a number of years.

Fenris99 · 2011-05-12T05:44:42.000Z

Budvar:

Seriously mate,

First time I recall being called ‘mate’. Cool!

you completely missed my point. Perhaps you didn’t read my original posts. The game was marketed as DRM free at release.
It is DRM free. No disk checks, no online verification, no rootkits, no spyware.

If you don’t want to download the patches, you can play the game without them and wait for the final “upload version”.