Hello gamers, I’m thinking of getting a COIN game after reading so much about it. Reason I want to get it is because I don’t know any good wargame that can accomodate 3-4 players and the historical topics simulated by COIN are interesting to me. Despite its growing popularity as a game system, somehow I don’t see much recommendations either hardcore euro gamers or wargamers, at least to my impression. To whose have had played any COIN games, may I know what’s your impression? What is the thing you enjoy or dislike in COIN series? Any caveats?
On the other hand, I’m going to buy a copy of Pericles as this is a game nothing like I had played before and I know I can convince my gaming group to try it (at least for a first try :p). For COIN though, I’m still on the fence though and that’s why I’d like to hear more from you all. (My interested topics are Liberty or Death and A Distant Plain. I might also get Cuba Libre if it’s intense as people claimed.)
Also, if you have any recommendation on wargames fro 3-4 players, please let me know! (I’m also waiting for the next reprint of Maria.)
I’ve no personal experience with COIN, but I think one doctor @Brooski is your best bet. I know he’s talked on various Qt3 and 3MA podcasts about them. Is there any particular subject matter that appeals to you in the COIN series?
I play Cuba Libre once and… I wouldn’t play it again. I’ve played Fire in the Lake several times, so I would recommend that. I definitely takes some time to understand what is going on, and what you’re trying to do, and how the actions actually work, but it is fun once you get there. Andean Abyss is another one I wouldn’t recommend.
For 3 player wargames, you should definitely play Triumph & Tragedy. You should definitely NOT play Churchill (although this is a somewhat unpopular opinion, I assure you it is correct).
For COIN games I generally like them all, but I haven’t played Liberty or Death yet so I can’t give a solid opinion on that one. The best COIN games are Andean Abyss and A Distant Plain. I really like Falling Sky too, I’m still processing it though.
Triumph and Tragedy is a great three player game and I recommend that one as well.
Haven’t played Angola, so can’t comment on that. Andean Abyss was just too darn long. Cuba Libre I don’t remember all that well (it was a long time ago I played it), but if I remember right it was very unbalanced; one faction had clearly won halfway through the game, and the other players couldn’t really do anything about it.
Fire in the Lake is an interesting situation, everyone has interesting stuff to do, and the cards are balanced (you almost always want to take the event, but you have to do actions sometimes!). I dunno, I just enjoy it. Like I said, my main complaint is that the rules and actions are hard to get your head around (and the player aid sheets could be a lot better).
I thought I remembered reading/hearing somewhere that you liked T&T, so maybe you didn’t disagree with all of my statements. And Churchill, well, yeesh, I’d rather not get into it.
If you can handle the theme A Distant Plain is the safest bet imho although Andean Abyss is also solid. I am enjoying Falling Sky as well but the jury is out as its my first game.
Fire in the Lake is so interesting. Its like a B-52 with a broken under carriage. So powerful, such endurance and terrible beauty, but its landings are not pretty :)
Thank you guys for your feedback! Theme wise Falling Sky interests me the most but I was too foolish for not backing its P500 and now I have to wait for 2nd reprint for long long time. So it’s between A Distant Plain and Liberty of Death if I were to get my first COIN game. Cuba Libre… the revolution history isn’t really my cup of tea.
Anyway, I’ve been checking out BGG and noticed the main criticisms of COIN series are either the ahistorical victory conditions or one of the factions may want to quit the game prematurely (I think I heard this as well in one of 3MA episode in which @Brooski mentioned about this). I’m totally find with alternate history outcome but I’ll be very upset if one of my gaming buddy is having a terrible time with one of LOD/ADP factions and decided to play sub-optimally. Even worse, my COIN game could only see one play? What do you guys think of this?
I’ve never heard of Angola either. Seems like a very unique game and it’s available on Hexasim (1 copy left!)! But 6-8 hours game time? Well, my friends have been asking for a session of Virgin Queen (they’re so fired up for Here I Stand) but obscure topic like Angola Civil War? I need to think of something to convince them to play if I ever got a copy. Meanwhile, I know someone who is selling Triumph & Tragedy for cheap, I’ll check whether it’s still available.
@Brooski, I’m a big fan of your Wild Weasel podcast! Have you ever thought of doing an episode on multiplayer wargames? I really wanted to hear more insights and recommendations from the Doctor! The world has too many 1 vs 1 wargame but anything over 3 players is sorely lacking.
Angola is great, IMO it’s better than any of the COIN games, but you really need 4, and it’s long. On the plus side, it’s really not a complicated game. I have played it twice, and I loved it, but the 4 player requirement and the game length make it tough unless you have a group into it.
I just checked BGG marketplace, and there are numerous copies of Falling Sky available, one in the US for $68 plus shipping, which is reasonable. It is gettable if you don’t want to wait for a reprint.
The problem with Liberty or Death is that the French have to wait around and sometimes don’t have that much to do. A Distant Plain is one of the best COIN games because there is a very clear sense that the Govt and Coalition goals don’t always coincide so there isn’t the sense of betrayal you can get in a game like Fire in the Lake. The problem with A Distant Plain is that some people may be uncomfortable playing the Taliban.
Thanks for the nice words about the podcast - I agree that there should be more 3+ player games like there are Euros, but it’s hard to find appropriate game situations. Another good 3-player game is Maria. It plays two, but is much better with three. I am much higher on Churchill than @JoshL seems to be, but we seem to agree that Triumph & Tragedy is great. And if you have four, I suggest Sword of Rome and/or or Pericles. And again, Angola is amazing.
This is my new official description of FitL from now on. Thanks, Rod!
And it should be noted that I won a VASSAL game of FitL as the US (or was I ARVN, Rod?) because the alternative was a completely athematic throwing of the game to the NVA/VC, and Rod refused. A true historical wargamer!
Cheers! i Think you were ARVN! It wasnt a one off either, I have seen the issue in most* games I have played with other people. :) Still I love the game despite its flaws!
*edit: I forgot about a game where it didnt happen. A blow through victory for the NVA.
Matrix Games is having a “D-Day Sale! 30% off on many titles! All games in the following list are discounted by 30% off until the end of the week on Sunday 11th June!”
I don’t have it. It’s just the First English Civil War. I read somewhere (I think in the Grogheads forum) that they’ll add the other two wars as DLC if this game does OK.
When Slitherine/Matrix acquired the Wargamer site and Pocket Tactics, there was a lot of “oh, don’t worry, it’ll be just the same! No bias!” stuff from, well, the people you’d expect to say that. I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt but pretty much right after that Pocket Tactics effectively disappeared as anything even remotely useful. I haven’t really spent much time at the Wargamer site, but it wouldn’t surprise me to see them become little more than a SlitherShill.
Wargaming was still mildly useful for a time after, but I’ve not gone in a good long while. Pocket Tactics was totally a mess once Owen stepped away from that. It had been the premier mobile game site, now utterly useless.
