Grognard Wargamer Thread!

I think it’s way too bloated to be quite honest, at this point, which makes WIF unwieldy to play. While it makes Dai Senso a problem(way too much of the game is decided in the delay box), I find the abstractions in air/naval combat to be fine in keeping the game moving for TK.

I think in a game design you really have to choose what to emphasize.

That being said, I like the thought of Thunder in the East’s air system, but I do not relish the thought of playing that as part of its big ETO series.

I’m really bit sure where you got this from. They’re not omitted at all.

I mean yes, you’re not controlling individual B-17s, but that would just be silly for the scale of the game.

Like most large games like this, I would say only if you will play it (have someone to play it with).

Or if you like to solitaire monsters like that, of course.

But I really like the system. I think it is a breath of fresh air.

This was over a year or two ago that I perused the rules so my specific memories of them may have faded, but I was pretty sure the naval game has no units, and I can’t recall much about the air, except perhaps that it might not be as detailed as 3R. Or maybe it is. I just can’t recall. Either way, please enlighten me/others who would like to know exactly how those aspect are modeled in TK. Thanks.

Cheers. Actually I DO like soloing monsters so… :)

I’ll still play the old PC port of Third Reich in dosbox and have fun with that. I have been looking for a good successor. I like lower counter density so, on Steam I’ve been playing Stratigic Command WWII: War in Europe, and for the table to I am trying to decide if I want GMT’s Unconditional Surrender.

Tom Mc

There are naval units and air units- they get committed to do things, then they go into the delay box. It’s functional. It’s kinda why Dai Senso doesn’t really work, though. TK is great.

The sad part of Dai Senso is that the structure of how Japan’s decisions work is really really interesting, it’s just that the naval-air combat is a bit too simplistic to really do the Pacific War justice.

It’s a bit beyond the ability to do in a quick internet post. There are, for example, naval zones which are contested through production of naval fleet counters, submarine counters, etc. That supremacy (if you have it) can then be converted into beachheads, tactical support for attacks, etc.

Air power is dependent upon having air bases within range of battles (for tactical/operational use), and again, air factors available can then be used for blitz support, etc.

The rules for TK are available on line. That’s the easiest way to see “exactly how those aspect are modeled in TK.”

Mark Herman wrote a note on this on the BGG forum 6 years ago

The delay phase at this point bears some comment. Dai Senso is a strategic war-game. Many people in our hobby believe any one map game on the Pacific is a strategic war-game. I do not subscribe to this view as my definition focuses on the player decisions. The majority of PacWar games incorporate extra detail around the mechanics of carrier battles. Let’s face it Carrier battles are exciting. Dai Senso like my ‘Empire of the Sun’ design are strategic games. Carrier battles are in the noise when viewed from this level. If you are a fan of this feature you will find it totally absent in the TK universe. Dai Senso takes the high level view whereby the only important feature is whether you do or do not have sufficient control over a sea zone to move your ground forces across it to their objectives. The outcome of carrier battles occurs when you determine whose support unit is more delayed. In the case of the South China Sea battle it was advantage US as the JP carrier was out of action for 3 turns versus one for the US. From a tactical point of view it was an American victory whereas strategically it had little effect.

It is meant to be very good.

I dig mark’s perspective here and really enjoy Empire of the Sun. That being said, I think Empire of the Sun handles that design better. EotS also doesn’t have particularly detailed carrier battles, but theres a lot of setting up, shuffling, and the way you run operations can really change everything. I think the focus more on CBI in Dai Senso causes that to be rendered in less detail, but then EotS has no China at all, and no option for a land war in Siberia.

TK/DS is fundamentally a land game, though, with a naval/air component attached, imo, whereas EotS is quite the opposite.

Empire of the Sun is brilliant! I really enjoy that game. But I have to be in a certain mood to play it. It has a puzzle-solving, brain-burning quality that demands a lot of me. I like that it makes me think. I also like that it abstracts China and omits Russia entirely, as I play that game when I want to focus on the sea.

I think it’s way too bloated to be quite honest, at this point, which makes WIF unwieldy to play.

One man’s bloat is another man’s chrome. :) Also, if you don’t like the extras in WIF, you can play with classic rules, or one or two maps, or use Vassal or Matrix WIF.

March to Glory has just been announced. Shenandoa Studios tackles Nappy.

Wait, but is there a Shenandoah anymore? I thought the studio was gutted and it lived on only as a name.

Correct.

From the linked page: " March to Glory is the new thrilling strategy game in development by Shenandoah Studio, the creators of gems like Battle of the Bulge and Gettysburg: The Tide Turns!"

All I know is when I used an old bookmark I had for Shenandoah Studio just now, it took me to the Shenandoah Studio games on the Slitherine web shop. Their three PC games offered for sale there are priced at $9.99 each.

Very interesting, an area-based tactical battle game. I can easily see battles like Waterloo with places such as Hougoumont being the new Trois Points from their Battle of the Bulge game. And it has a random map generator! I will keep an eye on this for sure.

I just emailed one of the Shenandoah founders and he didn’t know anything about it. Shenandoah sold their IP to Slitherine and they all have new jobs now.

Has anyone any familiarity with Ben Madison’s solo games? Particularly the Am Rev and Napoleonic Wars games? I think they are published by White Dog, although they might just be part of Hollandspiele.