Thanks for that - there are a dearth of Command Ops user scenarios which is a real shame. Especially compared to something like TOAW.
Finally! Winter and wargaming are coming on 3ma!
I am superinterested in listening about this game, thank you for the heads-up.
Cheers! Yeah the game is worth a grogs time.
I apologise for not not being particularly articulate as to why it is so. Although the other folks on the Pod did.
But hopefully I touched on how it feels to me. Its bundled up with nostalgia and admiration for information modelling.
So I guess Battlefront has released the updated Combat Mission Shock Force 2. If you own the previous edition and modules, you can get the entire bundle upgraded for $35, which doesn’t seem like too bad a price.
Assuming anyone is still interested in playing other than the hive mind over at Battlefront’s community.
the standard Blue on Red missions are pretty crap, but the community made Red on Red missions in CMSF are really good. Looking forward to playing them in the updated engine.
I do play those games against several people over PBEM, and, last time I checked I don’t hear any voices in my head compelling me to buy them.
The only two wargames I am playing at the moment are the Combat Missions, Armored Brigade, … and … Am I so weird?
I enjoyed that 3MA.
Rod made a very good point about the narrative aspects in the gameplay of Armored Brigade. It does so without overwhelming as it was sometimes the case of the HITS mode in 2nd Manassas by Mad Minute Games, and most of the time the successors by NorbSoftDev (that was hard to type, the autocorrection on my tablet went bananas).
That is certainly something missing in most wargames, but most wargames table top or not, highly abstract constraints on situational awareness, command and control. When c3i becomes command ranges, and negative shifts on a CRT, it is not very clear to me how to drop the player in the field to have their “Fabrice at Waterloo moment”. Games with card driven gameplay can do this: every card played and stays on the board is a vignette in the story.
Still, my favourite “game” for that kind of experience is Armor Attacks. Plenty of ideas in there for setting up battles for Steel Panthers, Combat Mission and now, Armored Brigade.
Going back to Armored Brigade…
I don’t excuse the lack of a - proper - scenario - not map! - editor or a campaign. For the first I would have preferred a CMANO approach: the world is your playground, here is a massive toy box and an event engine to get a narrative going or fake some sentience on the opponent. Steve Overton showed in Flashpoint that you can make interesting scenarios out of hypotheticals. For the second I wish no more than Steel Panthers, or the first Combat Mission notion of Operations.
The AI is strong, it can read the terrain and use it. That is rare, and Veitikka needs to receive accolades for it. Definitely a landmark for computer war games.
Yet I would very much like to play with humans. While Armored Brigade is good at planning and executing, it is not good at anticipating or working with contingencies (yet). Not that either matter much with the typical scale (map and force size) I think most folks play this game.
Last, the was a bit in the pod cast which I was like “really?” when Ian (?) commented on sending a tank coy to secure a village. Not sure how armor is supposed to do that in the game or in the real world :)
Oh, I wasn’t implying that one shouldn’t play the games, only that it’s seemed to me that for years that community over at Battlefront has been largely defensive, hostile to outsiders and pretty much impervious to criticism or even critique. Admittedly, I haven’t been there in years, having left after I just couldn’t take it any more even though I did have CM2 and Shock Force.
But then again, I did not like either game, really, nowhere near as much as I had enjoyed the original CM.
Great podcast, @Rod_Humble. But yeah, Miquel’s quote sums up the game for me. Everyone is loving on a mod that doesn’t exactly “sim”accurately. :).
“But it’s an AI sim, Pat!”
‘Yea, I think any number of players here would be a better Armored Brigade commander than that thing”.
Edit: Rod does indeed have BBC voice. I thought it was Sir Melvyn Bragg. :)
I would be very interested in Shock Force 2 but for the hilarious price tag of $125 for all the campaigns.
It has changed as the number of posters has decreased, in my appreciation, over the years. Since BFC is still in business of a sort, Itake that as a sign that a significant part of their audience just lurks the forums for information on releases, development status and “roadmaps” for future releases. I seldom post there anymore, they have a product which I can enjoy in very specific ways and that’s it.
The reason - my guess - why they haven’t made a more public release is because the British and NATO modules campaigns aren’t working at the moment… So if you were in it just for the campaigns, you would be dissapointed.
It is effectively an “early access” release.
Thanks! Yeah I am not sure AB is particularly smart, but is feels smart because of its clever decision to limit information to the player.
Agree it could use a campaign or linked operations. Its a flaw in my eyes.
@Navaronegun thanks! I actually hate my whiney voice, then again I dont really like English accents much at all.
I find it to be a very clever juxtaposition of smoke and mirrors and actual smarts. The formation movement in complex terrain is quite credible and it is not an easy thing to do.
Where I find it to fall flat on its nose is when reacting to incoming fires. Vehicles use smoke but don’t maneuver to get out of the kill zone. Infantry stays put in the open, rather than scrambling for nearby cover or concealment. I am not sure it is a technical limitation rather than a surprising design decision, though.
The enthusiasm on that 3MA episode was infectious. I will definitely grab the game next year!
I still have to unwrap mine and bust it out.
Ugh, yet another game I must own. Why are there so many?!
This is an actual political thesis in game form. It’s not a groundbreaking thesis (that an RF-led white minority government may have been able to institute a peaceful transition to a functional black-majority government by implementing liberal reforms while doing just enough to preserve white privilege to keep the electorate in line) but the way it plays out in the game is brill. This is a real politics-and-policy model that plays great as a game. It blows so-called political wargames like COIN off the map.