I got some/most of this feeling from the old Close Combat games; they are at the squad level, with a maximum fifteen squads (i.e. three platoons) per side, although the engine is admittedly dated now. I played the heck out of Close Combat: Invasion Normandy (aka CC5) which is available on Steam as part of Close Combat: The Longest Day. It’s real-time pausable, not turn-based, but it has the uncertainty of moving through Normandy villages and farmland, getting hit with MG fire from some hedgerow, and then having to scramble to figure out where to go and how to deal with the newly discovered enemy positions.
Microprose? How have I not seen this. Let us know how it plays.
I’ve played a good bit of Second Front. It pays homage to Advanced Squad Leader in vision, and I’ve liked what I’ve seen with the game so far. There’s a ton of content in the game as well, and you can build/share your own scenarios. I know the team is committed to keep building out the system too.
Pays homage in that it is basically a simplified variant. What’s in there mostly used the same maths (TH and INF tables; fire, range and morale values; etc).
I have not played much of the main game but I spent a few hours designing maps and scenarios and had a lot of fun with that. Super super easy to do. I’m not really sure I like it or not as of yet overall.
That is my usual MO with games like that. I played through the tutorials and got lost making maps/scenarios. At first I was trying to copy the old Squad Leader scenarios, then I got interested in trying to do remakes of those scenarios using the actual terrain or as close as I could get. Which led to an even deeper rabbit hole of comparing WW2 aerial photos and maps with Google Earth satellite imagery and in the end few scenarios were ever finished lol!
That said, I like Second Front and intend to get back to actually playing it at some point.
I remember going to the map collection at the library at college, poring over gorgeous maps of WWI battlefields, or parts of the world where battles had been fought in various eras. I’d put them on the light tables, overlay some hex-grid paper, and trace out game maps for tabletop wargames. Never really finished anything, but it was super fun.
I don’t remember spending much time with maps at the university library back then but they did have a great history section with a complete set of the Green Books. Sadly most of the maps from those had been stolen.
I think I posted my Buchholz Station map from Squad Leader scenario 7 here somewhere before. Here is the map I made based on Squad Leader, and then the map I made based on the actual terrain as close as I could determine:
SL7:
Map based on actual terrain:
Pre-war German map of the area:
Google Earth:
Buchholtz Station was a great scenario in the original Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord, too. Played the hell out of it.
Yes indeed. I reinstalled the originals a while back but even for me it was a little hard on the eyes. May put CMBO back on to play Buchholz now though lol! It was a fun scenario in SL as well.
Here’s another site I just discovered, a Facebook page for the 99th Div, with a ton of great photos both wartime and from the reunions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/51093243156/media?locale=zh_CN
Also has a killer map and report on the battle in the files section. May have to do some editing of my map and scenario now.
Is it possible to make maps with some randomness such that, if playing the scenario, I won’t know where the enemy is?
MANY years ago, I started playing a game by SimCan that was a naval combat sim, very simplified graphics (markers for ships.) I wanted to play scenarios in which I had a sub and was trying to track down an enemy CV TF and try to get to the CV to damage or sink it. It allowed me to create the scenarios, but since I would choose the composition of the enemy TF, a lot of the suspense was gone: I knew there was a couple of enemy destroyers, a BB, an escorting enemy sub, etc.
I talked to the developers and made a case for what I called a “Probability of inclusion” factor for each enemy force. They showed me how to get into the code and do that. So I could set the enemy CV at 100% (or 90% or whatever I chose,) the enemy sub at 50% or, again, whatever I chose, and so on. Now when I played that scenario, and I was trying to find the enemy TF, there was a true cat and mouse game going on, and I never knew 100% what I was facing. More than once I found the CV, manage to slowly close in, and end up with my sonar guy telling me a torpedo was closing in on us, from the enemy sub I assumed was not present. I played that game for years. I’d play it again today if I could find it; with no graphics, it would play fine today.
Soooo - I would love a scenario editor for a game like Second Front where I could build in some controlled randomness and a “probability of inclusion.”
It is a shame no one has continued to do the mixed games like SimCan did or try to improve upon the idea. I never played one at the time, but I remember reading about their games that would be the ancestor of what eventually turned into the Flashpoint Campaign stuff at Matrix, and thinking how cool that sounded.
The SimCan stuff showed you what could be done when you didn’t have to worry about graphics. Even then, that was a huge part of the expense and difficulty of making a commercial game. Those challenges have only gotten worse really.
I’ve been so good so far this year about playing the backlog of games that I have, but the Noble Knight sale got me over the weekend…
Absolutely. And the tension and drama and perceived realism was at least as great as any game with graphics.
Can you build a scenario with some kind of probability of inclusion or other randomness in it, such that when you play the scenario you’ve created, there is still fog of war tension?
I didn’t see any options for random placements, things like that. But, you can upload scenarios and download and play other’s creations. I just checked out the workshop and it looks like there are leader board scores for each scenario so you can compare how you did playing each scenario against the scores from other players…
Edit: I take it back, there are some variable placements for Artillery and hidden enemy units. You can place multiple alternate locations and the guns and hidden enemy units will populate at one of the possible locations. It’s not totally random but it’s better than no variability. I need to read the manual before I answer anymore!
I went into the editor, made a small map. I then painted every space on the enemy side with a variable placement for two artillery units. I then ran the scenario multiple times and they started in different hexes each time. I dont see an option for variable units but variable unit placements does work.
I don’t think Second Front has anything like the old CMBO quick battles yet, or any real sort of random forces capability. Closest thing to that I guess would be playing other people’s scenarios. I’m hoping he adds something along those lines eventually. I really would prefer to see multiplayer before anything else, even though I think a dlc is already in the works to add the Brits. It’s a cool game but playing the AI is never as good as playing against my friends.