Guild Of Dungeoneering

Games
1

So there’s a big banner ad at the top of the page and no one else is playing this besides myself? Alrighty, then.

Impressions: When I played this for the first time, I hated, hated, hated it. I hated the aesthetic, I hated that characters were reset to level 1 for each dungeon, and I couldn’t understand the point.

Then, this morning, I tried it again and it clicked. And I really, really, really like it a lot (although I still don’t understand the ultimate goal or how to “win”).

Guild of Dungeoneering is a schizophrenic game made up of two distinct mini-games. It’s a weird amalgam of Dungeon Keeper, Majesty, Card Hunter, and Hand of Fate (if HoF were turn-based), with a little rogue-like flavor because why not?

For the sake of clarity I’m going to refer to the two parts as the Macro-Dungeon and the Micro-Dungeon.

The Macro-D is a turn-based take on Dungeon Keeper. You spend gold (the game calls it Renown Points, but it may as well be gold) to lay down various rooms as you design your Dungeon. Most rooms generate a particular class of Hero that can be either might or magic based (say…there’s an idea for a game right there) or unlock weapons, armor, or stat-boosting accessories. When a hero of a particular class dies (and they will - a lot), he or she is immediately replaced by another of the same class.

As you Macro Dungeon expands, is unlocks a series of Micro-Dungeons, each stand-alone adventures with several levels leading to an eventual goal. You generate RP by sending a Dungeoneer in to finish a level and hopefully return with a fistful of cash to fund the construction of the Macro Dungeon.

Here’s where it becomes HoF meets Majesty. You have no direct control over your Dungeoneer. Every turn you are dealt a hand of cards, and you can play up to 3. Each card allows you to either add a room to the Dungeon, place a monster, a treasure, or some other interesting artifact. The idea is to guide the Dungeoneer onto a path where by leveling up and acquiring treasure, he or she will eventually be able to beat the level. When your cards have been played, the Dungeoneer will head into the room that is most interesting - which may not be the room you had in mind (each Micro Dungeon starts with a preset number of rooms, traps, treasures, and monsters). Often you find yourself yelling “NO! Over THERE, Dummy!”

When a Dungeoneer enters a room with a Monster, turn-based combat takes place. The monster plays a card, and you are dealt a hand of 3 cards that have different kinds of attacks, blocks, or buffs. The idea is to play the best card out of the three to block the attack and do some damage at the same time.
If succesful, the Dungeoneer exits the level with enough RP for you to add new rooms to the Macro-D and start over.

Starting over is a big part of the game and will probably be the most divisive aspect, because once successfully completing the level of a Dungeon, Dungeoneers lose all the equipment and experience they acquired and revert to a naked and empty-handed Level 1 character. I think that’s because the game wants you to experiment with as many classes as possible, and who would send in a freshly-hired Lev 1 fighter when they have a Lev 10 barbarian instead.

The game has a great sense of humor. So far my favorite class to recruit is the Mime, because who doesn’t want to send a mime to a bloody death at the bottom of a dungeon?

2

I played this a bit tonight and had an opposite reaction: Absolutely fell in love with the aesthetic at first, and after about an hour and a half was utterly bored with its complete lack of depth.

I don’t mind the disposable-hero aspect of the game, but there’s just so little room for tactics on any of the game’s three levels (growing your guild, laying down dungeon tiles, and actually fighting battles) that I might as well be playing the F2P Skinner box du jour. The risk-reward and macro-leveling aspects are both done much better in Darkest Dungeon, and the presentation there is a hundred times better as well.

That’s not to say that this day-0 Early Access game can’t turn into something good, but as it stands now I’m really not feeling it. As much as I like the aesthetic, the actual gameplay is wafer-thin.

e: Mimes are amusing, though.

3

Different strokes, I guess. But I’m pretty sure it’s not Early Access.

4

I’ve been playing this all day and I’m a bit frustrated with some of the obtuse gameplay mechanics. Which is a shame, because the game’s unique charm is lurking behind some of that obtuseness. But I think I’ve finally parsed how the inventory and dungeoneering works. Very clever stuff. In fact, I’d wager that anyone who says there’s no room for tactics in the game hasn’t figured it out yet. Which is a legitimate ding against the documentation, but not against the game design. It’s actually a brilliant little concept for how it’s a bite-sized variation on the Card Hunter model, which got tedious for me. But because you start over with a naked level 1 character every time you do a dungeon in Guilds of Dungeoneering, I’m finding it a lot more varied and rewarding.

I have no idea why you would compare this game to Darkest Dungeon.

-Tom

5

Yep, it’s absolutely not! It’s the full release. The store doesn’t have the Early Access tag and the version number is 1.0.

-Tom

6

I’d wager that anyone who says there’s no room for tactics in the game hasn’t figured it out yet.

Oh goody.

For really reals? Okay.

7

I think Adam is looking at this the way I did when I reacted negatively - as a roguelike about combat. The real challenge (and point of the game, I think) is to design dungeon levels interesting enough to your little Dungeoneer such that he or she will grind long enough to be able to beat the boss.

I’m hoping that as dungeons become tougher and grinds get longer the game can still keep them interesting.

8

This is my biggest issue with the game.

Other than that, I’ve played almost 2 hours and I’m still unsure how I feel about this game. It’s good for some quick action here and there, but sometimes it can be downright dull.

9

Have you played Darkest Dungeon? It’s a combat engine along the lines of a JRPG with persistent character development. What about that reminds you of Guilds of Dungeoneering, which is a bite-sized deck builder? More specifically, what about the “risk-reward” (I have no idea what you mean by invoking that) and “macro leveling” in Darkest Dungeon reminds you Guilds of Dungeoneering?

I mean, yeah, you’re building a base in both games and they’re both fantasy settings, but that’s like comparing X-Com to Command & Conquer. They each have bases! They’re set in the same broad genre! It sounds like you dinked around with Guilds of Dungeoneering for a little bit, couldn’t figure it out, assumed it was early access, and then bailed. I went through the “couldn’t figure it out” stage myself and almost bailed. And that’s fine. It’s even fine if you didn’t like it. But to write it off as a “Skinner box F2P du jour” makes even less sense than your Darkest Dungeons comparison.

-Tom

10

I think it helps to realize that each dungeon is sort of a standalone self-contained challenge, and the tools you have to beat that challenge are based on how you leveled up your guild. You may realize that, but it took me about a half hour of dinking around and getting frustrated before I figured out the overall structure of the game. But based on how I leveled up my guild, I’ve gotten to the point where there’s almost no pushback for some of the dungeons (I’m reluctant to describe this point, since I’d hate to mess up the progression curve for anyone enjoying the game). But I’m hoping that’s going to change as I get further into the game.

-Tom

11

Is the “macro-dungeon” referred to in the initial post synonymous with the guild you are building up or something else entirely?

12

Jeff Vogel doesn’t do early access games.

13

Yes, I was referring to the guild.

14

I have no idea how that comment got pasted in my post. That was directed at Brad Wardell in a Sorcerer King thread about the effect of feedback from hardcore RPG players!

-Tom
15

Hahaha that’s hilarious.

16

This looks pretty neat, but I think I’m going to wait on the iOS release.

17

Hi folks. Just noticed this thread as we come down from launch week madness. Thanks for checking out the game & happy to answer questions. Tom Chick I believe we were talking on our steam forums about how the AI / pathing works. I don’t visit Qt3 that much anymore but immediately recognised the name :) From reading through this thread it looks like you really ‘got’ the game, after the initial confusion caused by how we don’t properly explain a lot of mechanics (or at all in some cases).

Assuming here you unlocked your first Tier 2 class? Each tier has a significant power upgrade, but the corresponding regions on the map have an equivalent difficulty bump so I’m also guessing you hadn’t reached the 2nd area yet at that point?

I’d love to hear your thoughts now if you have played a bit more.

That’s a pretty good description! Also, very interesting that you hated it but then liked it (luckily you gave it a 2nd try). The game seems to be very polarising. What could we improve about it to get you to like it quicker, do you think? I’m OK with people hating it but would love to get those who do eventually like it to get that feeling from the start!

18

Also just wanted to point out I’ve made a list of what we’re working on adding/fixing/etc:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/317820/discussions/0/535151589888440541/

This is our first game and we’re a really small team. Started out just me + artist and only on our weekends, ended up with five of us for the final 6 months (fulltime apart from the artist). So there’s definitely things we need to improve on - hoping to get there over the next couple months!

19

I still don’t hate it, but I’m not playing it any longer either. The grind required to open up Lev 2 characters proved to be too much for me. The problem is in the luck based nature of the game and the fact that characters start every dungeon naked and bare-handed, no matter how many dungeons they’ve completed. I don’t see how that can be changed without changing the fundamental nature of the game.

The only things I can suggest that would make it more palatable is either reducing the cost of unlocking next-level character, or change the balance of how much loot you get when a character dies. Frankly I got sick and tired of almost completing a dungeon only to come away with 10 or 15 gold, knowing I needed another 300 to unlock the next character tier.

20

That’s exactly the point I’m talking about. That gap after unlocking a next tier hero but before moving on to a new section. But, yeah, once I got into the next area, the difficulty curve definitely catches up with the power curve! :)

-Tom