Guild Wars 2?

[Jag]

Dear site mods, you should probably have some sort of warning on the main page that all new posters have to check with Jag before participating in your site.

You are truly a Bad Girl :D

[JM1]

I’ve played Darkfall since beta so I’m well aware of what a free for all MMO environment is. Believe it or not there are people who like that sort of thing and they specifically battle it out against the random PK crowd.

One of the reasons why pretty much nobody plays Darkfall.

Why does this topic irritate people so much? There are plenty of standard servers to pick from. I think Arena would ultimately make money so whats the big deal?

Because a) it would require a ton of work to shoehorn in something that is completely contrary to everything that game is designed for, and b) open world PVP pisses off way more people than it interests.

It doesn’t need to be in every game. What we have here is a brilliant co-operative game.

[Reldan]

One of the reasons why pretty much nobody plays Darkfall.

Do GOONs even bother with Darkfall? Serious question. Because they’re all over the place in GW2, and they would make an Open PvP server a living hell until they destroyed it so utterly that even they got tired and moved on. And the only game I know of so bleak that it destroyed even the GOON’s will to grief was Wurm Online, because you can’t grief people any worse than the game already does just by playing it.

[Knightsaber]

Do GOONs even bother with Darkfall? Serious question. Because they’re all over the place in GW2, and they would make an Open PvP server a living hell until they destroyed it so utterly that even they got tired and moved on. And the only game I know of so bleak that it destroyed even the GOON’s will to grief was Wurm Online, because you can’t grief people any worse than the game already does just by playing it.

Site definitely needs a ‘Like’ button or +1’s.

+1 for you sir. Wurm will suck the life out of people, and not in a good way whatsoever.

[Kyle700]

Wandering around, clicking on things, and killing things where what you click on actually matters.

Again, I’m enjoying the game. But I’m feel like I could completely ignore all of the text dialogue that everyone presents, just go to little hearts or dynamic events, and interact with/kill everything and get the same result.

So far, I’m not seeing any story or dynamic events where my decisions actually matter. I’m Asura. So I go up to some Skritt where I’m apparently supposed to give them an IQ test. There’s no interaction in the true sense of the word. I’m literally just clicking on them, and then clicking the follow up dialogue button until my little quest bar fills up a little further. Hell, I wouldn’t even have to know I’m supposedly testing them - it would work the same if I just wandered up to them completely unaware, “interacted with them,” and clicked through the linear dialogue tree that results. I don’t even have to know why I’m there or do anything remotely intelligent or interactive. Just click.

It’s the same thing with the “check on these objects that we have planted around here” quests. Click on the object. No real decision or thought involved. Then click on the nasty thing that pops up because I’ve clicked on the object, and kill that.

It’s basically glorified whack-a-mole. Now I like whack-a-mole, it’s fine. I just thought, based on the gushing that I’ve seen over this game, that its PvE was somehow different. And so far at least, it really isn’t.

Just wanted to point out that that is not a dynamic event, the asura one. That is a heart quest. Dynamic events are a lot more interesting. Ive done one where i had to occupy a hill taken by ice men, then reinforcements came from the Vigil and we had to defend from a counte attack. Then we had escort a caravan to the enemy headquarters to bomb open the gate. Then we had to stop them performing a ritual that would transform the attack into monsters. Then we had to kill the leaders. At any point in this chain, if you failed, a different event would appear. Like if the succedded in the ritual, all your ally npcs would turn into monsters! And then a new event would spawn, in which you had to kill them! The event system is impresive fun, you just have to find an actual event, rather then a heart quest ;)

[Razgon]

I feel like i should start a travel blog about GuildWars 2. Recently I escorted a guy back to his burned down homestead, defending him from the Kraits. A few tag-alongs joined me, and we followed him on his heartwrenching quest to reclaim a few mementoes from the place. Thats when saw the batsignal (Or rather the big yellow skull ) from the south in the heart of the Ocean, and saw that we needed to kill the Blood Witch. Now, I have no idea what a Blood Witch is, but I felt certain that it was morally right to kill it, and that it needed doing so badly, and since it was a group quest, I was happy to see some of the others tag along.

We arrived at the place and dove deep into the ocean, and was confused. Were was the Blood Witch? I could see the skull Icon, but no evil dastardly foe - We swam around a bit, until it dawned on me…There must be a way down even further! And yes, there was an entire level below were we were, guarded by Baracudas in large flocks, and the Veterans of the Krait Army, and soon, there were skulls littering the map, but not the Orange ones anymore, no…this was the “DEAD PLAYER” skulls. At one time, there was 15 of us dead in the horrible horrible cave… and we havent even made it to the Blood Witch herself, which was kinda. I would have loved to see if she was really made of blood.

[Reldan]

I feel like i should start a travel blog about GuildWars 2. Recently I escorted a guy back to his burned down homestead, defending him from the Kraits. A few tag-alongs joined me, and we followed him on his heartwrenching quest to reclaim a few mementoes from the place. Thats when saw the batsignal (Or rather the big yellow skull ) from the south in the heart of the Ocean, and saw that we needed to kill the Blood Witch. Now, I have no idea what a Blood Witch is, but I felt certain that it was morally right to kill it, and that it needed doing so badly, and since it was a group quest, I was happy to see some of the others tag along.

We arrived at the place and dove deep into the ocean, and was confused. Were was the Blood Witch? I could see the skull Icon, but no evil dastardly foe - We swam around a bit, until it dawned on me…There must be a way down even further! And yes, there was an entire level below were we were, guarded by Baracudas in large flocks, and the Veterans of the Krait Army, and soon, there were skulls littering the map, but not the Orange ones anymore, no…this was the “DEAD PLAYER” skulls. At one time, there was 15 of us dead in the horrible horrible cave… and we havent even made it to the Blood Witch herself, which was kinda. I would have loved to see if she was really made of blood.

As it turns out, she’s made up of YOUR blood! So in a way, you created her by seeking to destroy her. There’s a lesson to be learned from this, I think.

[SlyFrog]

Just wanted to point out that that is not a dynamic event, the asura one. That is a heart quest. Dynamic events are a lot more interesting. Ive done one where i had to occupy a hill taken by ice men, then reinforcements came from the Vigil and we had to defend from a counte attack. Then we had escort a caravan to the enemy headquarters to bomb open the gate. Then we had to stop them performing a ritual that would transform the attack into monsters. Then we had to kill the leaders. At any point in this chain, if you failed, a different event would appear. Like if the succedded in the ritual, all your ally npcs would turn into monsters! And then a new event would spawn, in which you had to kill them! The event system is impresive fun, you just have to find an actual event, rather then a heart quest ;)

I know - I wasn’t suggesting that particular event was dynamic. But the dynamic events I have seen so far have not been anything nearly that interesting. Admittedly, I’m early on.

[Jag]

I did a similar thing, just wandering alone and lost in the wild until I stumbled upon some Order of Whisper guys arguing about making a decision. They asked for my help and it kicked off a multi event chain that ended up with 20-30 players in an epic battle…all because I happen to stumble upon those guys.

[TheWombat]

It doesn’t need to be in every game. What we have here is a brilliant co-operative game.

True, but I think what is being lamented is that it (open world PvP that actually IS open world PvP) is pretty much in NO game, right now, at least not any reasonably polished professionally developed/published game. And yeah, I get that most folks simply don’t want it–Warhammer Online’s open RvR servers were among the first to go, EQ2s got consolidated, WoW’s devolved into love fests that had zero attention paid to them by the devs, etc. So those of us who would want what is being talked about here are a definite minority. Hell, I’d not want to play on that type of server all the time, either; I love the balance GW2 has right now. But I agree 100% that open world PvP, faction based or even free for all, adds something that no other type of MMO gameplay offers, for those that want it.

[Driveled]

One of the reasons why pretty much nobody plays Darkfall.

Because a) it would require a ton of work to shoehorn in something that is completely contrary to everything that game is designed for, and b) open world PVP pisses off way more people than it interests.

It doesn’t need to be in every game. What we have here is a brilliant co-operative game.

Not many people play Darkfall for a variety of reasons and that could be its own thread. The point is people are still paying a monthly fee three years after it was released. They aren’t griefers, they’re hardcore PvP’ers. PvP with consequence means something to people.

Where WoW/Warhammer/etc went wrong is they went half assed. If you’re going to do something do it right, full PvP/full loot.

I’m not a programmer but I can’t imagine enabling PvP server wide would be very complicated. Make the server name red and put a warning on it. Done.

…and why god why would this piss anyone off? Don’t play on the server if you don’t like it.

[Murbella]

Genre dead meaning: no new ideas past WoW. The creative surge pre-WoW has been shot down. Post WoW just clones, failures and very bad games overall with no ambition.

WoW itself is trailing along empty of ideas, unchallenged. Not on the commercial level, nor on the conceptual level.

Lack of movement forward = genre dead in my own perception.

Is this more clear?

does this mean I can declare the FPS genre as dead to?

Also, the problem with open world PvP with “consequences“ is that players always find exploits to remove them. Then it turns in to a 12 year old getting executed by a firing squad of 32 heavy tanks. Ironically the person on the receiving end tends to not stick around long.

[Hanacker]

I’m not a programmer but I can’t imagine enabling PvP server wide would be very complicated. Make the server name red and put a warning on it. Done.

While they’re at it, they should make a server where you can use the console to generate any item you want. People seem to love those when they make emulated custom servers.

[malkav11]

Not many people play Darkfall for a variety of reasons and that could be its own thread. The point is people are still paying a monthly fee three years after it was released. They aren’t griefers, they’re hardcore PvP’ers. PvP with consequence means something to people.

Where WoW/Warhammer/etc went wrong is they went half assed. If you’re going to do something do it right, full PvP/full loot.

I’m not a programmer but I can’t imagine enabling PvP server wide would be very complicated. Make the server name red and put a warning on it. Done.

…and why god why would this piss anyone off? Don’t play on the server if you don’t like it.

Unless you pretty much just kick the server out the door, flag it, and ignore it forever afterwards, it’s going to claim resources - support, maintenance, dev time if they want to address balance at all, etc. If they actually wanted to do it at all properly (which just turning on PvP in all zones and enabling player looting would not be, because the game is not designed to be played that way), it would require significantly more investment than that. And A-Net strike me as the sort of people who want to do these things right. People get pissed when the limited resources of developer attention and cash are brought to bear on a type of gameplay that they neither enjoy nor asked for. Especially if any changes from it propagate backwards to the game they -do- play. (This has been by far my single biggest complaint about PvP in MMOs - developers rebalancing the entire game based on PvP imbalances that are irrelevant in the PvE game.)

[JPR]

If nothing else, I think GW2 shows that when ArenaNet wants to implement something, they take their time and do it all the way. Just changing a couple of bools in the config for one of their servers doesn’t seem their style.

They also seem to be interested largely in PvP as eSport, not as whatever this would be.

[Kyle700]

That trailer was… weird… I don’t like it.

And they even spoiled Zhaitan! If that is what that thing is. On the other hand, now I REALLY can’t wait to fight him. That was one amazing looking dragon.

[barstein]

I feel like i should start a travel blog about GuildWars 2. Recently I escorted a guy back to his burned down homestead, defending him from the Kraits. A few tag-alongs joined me, and we followed him on his heartwrenching quest to reclaim a few mementoes from the place. Thats when saw the batsignal (Or rather the big yellow skull ) from the south in the heart of the Ocean, and saw that we needed to kill the Blood Witch. Now, I have no idea what a Blood Witch is, but I felt certain that it was morally right to kill it, and that it needed doing so badly, and since it was a group quest, I was happy to see some of the others tag along.

We arrived at the place and dove deep into the ocean, and was confused. Were was the Blood Witch? I could see the skull Icon, but no evil dastardly foe - We swam around a bit, until it dawned on me…There must be a way down even further! And yes, there was an entire level below were we were, guarded by Baracudas in large flocks, and the Veterans of the Krait Army, and soon, there were skulls littering the map, but not the Orange ones anymore, no…this was the “DEAD PLAYER” skulls. At one time, there was 15 of us dead in the horrible horrible cave… and we havent even made it to the Blood Witch herself, which was kinda. I would have loved to see if she was really made of blood.

Man, I wish such a travel blog had existed several days ago, when I undertook an enormous journey and leveled from 19-28 in the process from exploration and gathering alone. Or perhaps, given my inebriated state at the time, I don’t. So many stories I could have shared but didn’t. One of my favorite but most painful moments was realizing, in the wee (and not very sober) hours of the morning on Sunday, that my Sylvarian was, while several levels higher than he’d been the last time I’d checked, naked and broke and still ridiculously weak compared to both friends and foes in the region he was in, and that I had no f****** idea how I’d get him back to safer and more familiar surroundings. Getting him back home required a great deal of trial and error and patience.

I should mention that this was long before I discovered a very simple way to travel back to a safe zone from any spot in the world for free via the game interface, as well as a couple of other useful tricks.

[Aeek]

Also, the problem with open world PvP with “consequences“ is that players always find exploits to remove them. Then it turns in to a 12 year old getting executed by a firing squad of 32 heavy tanks. Ironically the person on the receiving end tends to not stick around long.

That’s EVE Online that I am loving too “fair combat is not a design goal”.

Both (GW2 and EVE) support low and high time characters working together.
Both are resistant to GOON style destroy the game griefing.
Both have lots of pathways.
Both have characters only using a subset of their skills along with rapid respecs.
For all they are are polar opposites.

I am loving reviving random players, the contrast from EVE is glorious.

[Driveled]

Unless you pretty much just kick the server out the door, flag it, and ignore it forever afterwards, it’s going to claim resources - support, maintenance, dev time if they want to address balance at all, etc. If they actually wanted to do it at all properly (which just turning on PvP in all zones and enabling player looting would not be, because the game is not designed to be played that way), it would require significantly more investment than that. And A-Net strike me as the sort of people who want to do these things right. People get pissed when the limited resources of developer attention and cash are brought to bear on a type of gameplay that they neither enjoy nor asked for. Especially if any changes from it propagate backwards to the game they -do- play. (This has been by far my single biggest complaint about PvP in MMOs - developers rebalancing the entire game based on PvP imbalances that are irrelevant in the PvE game.)

This sounds like someone attacking gay marriage. Your argument is basically “because I don’t like it”.

GW2 is already a PvP game. There will be on going balancing to support WvW and sPvP. An open PvP server would require another auto response from their customer support and that’s about it. Yes, server maintenance and all that but if they’re selling more copies to gamers that wouldn’t have bought their product, its a win.

[malkav11]

This sounds like someone attacking gay marriage. Your argument is basically “because I don’t like it”.

GW2 is already a PvP game. There will be on going balancing to support WvW and sPvP. An open PvP server would require another auto response from their customer support and that’s about it. Yes, server maintenance and all that but if they’re selling more copies to gamers that wouldn’t have bought their product, its a win.

I wouldn’t care about such a server as long as no one expected me to play on it. I was just trying to explain why people might. And the PvP mode you’re describing is not the same as the existing models and that difference could easily lead to different balancing and design considerations. If, at least, ArenaNet decided they wanted to support it. Maybe you’d be okay with them not bothering. I wouldn’t be, if I were interested in open PvP.