Guild Wars 2?

[hepcat]

Are you saying it can’t work in any game? I guess you never played Shadowbane? It’s a fine example of how a player policed game can work.

I’m not sure I agree with that. I played a lot of Shadowbane and I distinctly remember it became ridiculously difficult to even walk outside safe zone cities at later levels. Groups of griefers would just wait outside city walls and attack any and all who ventured outside. I quit shortly after realizing this wasn’t going to change anytime soon.

[Fishbreath]

The thing about Shadowbane was that it absolutely wasn’t a solo game. I had great fun sticking with a guild and knocking heads over mines and prime powerleveling spots. I expect that level of organization was something that happened pretty late in its lifetime.

[Reldan]

Are you saying it can’t work in any game? I guess you never played Shadowbane? It’s a fine example of how a player policed game can work. I haven’t played EVE much but I think I read that it works pretty well in that game as well and I’m sure there are other examples.

I played Shadowbane. Actually was an officer in a small guild in that game - we had our own city and blah-de-dah.

Perhaps my recollection differs from yours, but it was suicide in that game to wander alone pretty much anywhere outside of protected areas or cities your guild was allied with. It was suicide to not be in a guild that had strong alliances with the other guilds in the area.

Eventually our server devolved into two megaguilds that had to negotiate having wars with each other to give players something to do.

This was before there would have been a GOON guild that wouldn’t have allied with anyone else and would have had the numbers to grief the living shit out of everybody else, and it still wasn’t the picturesque experience being presented as the “wouldn’t it be cool if…” here.

[triggercut]

What do you use as a secondary weapon set? And do you resort to it often?

I’m nowhere near as far through as you guys, but even at my level Toughness/Vitality seem crazy good. I respecced from a Condition Damage trait build to defence, and even with just ten trait points my survivability went through the roof.

Right now I still use Axe/Horn for the PVP utility (the sprint with the horn ability combined with the sprint off the Signet Of Rage means that if timed correctly I’m moving at great speed for all but 10 seconds of every minute or so), as well as how good the axe is for burning down enemy NPCs especially at close range once they are totally debuffed.

[Mark_Asher]

I played Shadowbane. Actually was an officer in a small guild in that game - we had our own city and blah-de-dah.

Perhaps my recollection differs from yours, but it was suicide in that game to wander alone pretty much anywhere outside of protected areas or cities your guild was allied with. It was suicide to not be in a guild that had strong alliances with the other guilds in the area.

Eventually our server devolved into two megaguilds that had to negotiate having wars with each other to give players something to do.

This was before there would have been a GOON guild that wouldn’t have allied with anyone else and would have had the numbers to grief the living shit out of everybody else, and it still wasn’t the picturesque experience being presented as the “wouldn’t it be cool if…” here.

I played it for quite some time and I wouldn’t say it was suicide to go out in the world. There were people who would fight you, sure, but there was more open world than gankers. But it may have been different on your server. That was the thing about the game – each server was unique. You could roll on a different server and there would be different player cities in different locations and different guilds fighting one another.

Besides, I played Shadowbane to fight other players. There wasn’t a lot of reason to be out roaming around otherwise. You leveled quickly and once leveled PvE didn’t matter other than in trying to collect the runes or whatever they were called.

[Mark_Asher]

This is just stupid. It’s been said multiple times that most fighting abilities in GW2 are either cone or AoE and affect all “non friendly” targets in the area. Which in FFA PvP environment would be everybody.

Melee combat won’t work because when killing your enemy with a greatsword you will be also killing your allies around the target.

Ranged combat won’t work because when shooting at your enemy you will also be hitting your allies either through AoE or if they get in the way.

Buffing won’t work because you will be buffing your enemies. ([edit] Actually, since everyone is an enemy in an FFA environment, you won’t be buffing anyone except you, so all support, healing and crowd control skills are out of the window. Hehe, it would be funny to put up a Wall of Reflection and make both your and enemy teams kill themselves with ranged attacks)

Conditions won’t work because you will be applying them to your allies.

Condition removal won’t work because you will be removing conditions from both allies and enemies. ([edit] Same as support)

Fields won’t work. Stuff like mesmer’s teleport or group stealthing won’t work. Reviving won’t work. Siege equipment won’t work.

So very basic stuff won’t work in FFA environment and will require major redesign. That’s why it’s a stupid idea and maybe we should stop talking about it because it’s not going to happen. Or create a separate thread for it and see for yourself how many people will be attracted to the idea.

Yeah, I hadn’t thought about all that stuff. Swords and the like are weird. It’s like the players have arms that are 20 feet long when they swing them.

Well, you could have faction based PvP in the PvE world. That would be a significant redesign too.

As to how many players would like something like that the PvP servers in WoW seem popular enough.

[Razgon]

There is, of course, a working Shadowbane emulator being worked on. I’m unsure about the legality of it, but I remember the game itself being sold by Ubisoft to one of the lead developers back in the day, after which it closed down about a year later.

[Mark_Asher]

There is, of course, a working Shadowbane emulator being worked on. I’m unsure about the legality of it, but I remember the game itself being sold by Ubisoft to one of the lead developers back in the day, after which it closed down about a year later.

Yeah, I used to check in on it now and then but it looked like one of those projects that would never really get off the ground. It’s a shame Ubi just doesn’t release the code. It’s not like it would attract more than a couple of thousand players, if that. Probably more like several hundred.

[Stridergg]

Yeah, I hadn’t thought about all that stuff. Swords and the like are weird. It’s like the players have arms that are 20 feet long when they swing them.

Well, you could have faction based PvP in the PvE world. That would be a significant redesign too.

As to how many players would like something like that the PvP servers in WoW seem popular enough.

Actually, sword’s regular attack is 150 and the units are, I believe, inches, which makes it ~12 feet. 12 feet is a believable distance for a sword if you take into consideration arm length, sword length and a bit of a body movement.

Faction based PvP is already implemented in WvW, so obviously it can be done more or less easily in the rest of the zones (but don’t kid yourself by thinking “it’s just a switch”, a lot of things will have to be redesigned like introducing safe zones, etc.).

The argument, however, was that “GW2 is the perfect game for FFA PvP and could add it with almost no effort”, which I’ve shown is nonsense. Let’s leave it at that.

[Reldan]

As to how many players would like something like that the PvP servers in WoW seem popular enough.

The faction stuff works in practice if the factions contain roughly equivalent numbers of players and you restrict players to choosing and sticking with a side, which in GW2 would mean you’d be stuck playing just one race on the server. To do it proper they’d have to restrict racial selection based on relative caps, which sucks from the standpoint of not getting to make the character you wanted.

SWTOR had their open world PvP setup as Empire vs. Republic and it was broken as hell because the Empire simply had 3x the player base the Republic did. Even the sPvP was busted because of that at launch and necessitated them adding more maps that could be played same-faction vs. same-faction.

[Reemul]

Actually, sword’s regular attack is 150 and the units are, I believe, inches, which makes it ~12 feet. 12 feet is a believable distance for a sword if you take into consideration arm length, sword length and a bit of a body movement.

Faction based PvP is already implemented in WvW, so obviously it can be done more or less easily in the rest of the zones (but don’t kid yourself by thinking “it’s just a switch”, a lot of things will have to be redesigned like introducing safe zones, etc.).

The argument, however, was that “GW2 is the perfect game for FFA PvP and could add it with almost no effort”, which I’ve shown is nonsense. Let’s leave it at that.

Heck it’s a rag reading your posts, such a high handed know it all manner, personally I wish you would just give it a rest

[Stridergg]

Heck it’s a rag reading your posts, such a high handed know it all manner, personally I wish you would just give it a rest

Oops, sorry for the tone, didn’t mean it to sound in a “know it all” manner. :)

However, if you feel anything I’ve posted is factually incorrect, please feel free to let me know.

[Hanacker]

I played Shadowbane for a few weeks and my impression was that PvE in that game was Stand here afk with this group while I run a macro to power level all of us. If someone finds us and we wipe, we’ll do the same thing tomorrow.

[KevinC]

Oops, sorry for the tone, didn’t mean it to sound in a “know it all” manner. :)

FWIW, your post didn’t strike me as “know it all” in tone. I’m guessing Reemul is on his period or something.

[Fishbreath]

I played Shadowbane for a few weeks and my impression was that PvE in that game was Stand here afk with this group while I run a macro to power level all of us. If someone finds us and we wipe, we’ll do the same thing tomorrow.

Yup. Made up for it, though, when a group of 10 could easily wreck a less-coordinated group of 30. Flying top cover as a Fury is one of my best memories from Shadowbane.

[LockerK]

Spent the last 2-3 hours working my way through the eternal battlegrounds jumping puzzle. Get to the top, very near the end, and I get disconnected. I think I’m done with jumping puzzles for a while.

[malkav11]

Actually, sword’s regular attack is 150 and the units are, I believe, inches, which makes it ~12 feet. 12 feet is a believable distance for a sword if you take into consideration arm length, sword length and a bit of a body movement.

Faction based PvP is already implemented in WvW, so obviously it can be done more or less easily in the rest of the zones (but don’t kid yourself by thinking “it’s just a switch”, a lot of things will have to be redesigned like introducing safe zones, etc.).

The argument, however, was that “GW2 is the perfect game for FFA PvP and could add it with almost no effort”, which I’ve shown is nonsense. Let’s leave it at that.

The thing is, the factions in WvW are other servers. There is no extant structure for any other faction setup. Not an insurmountable problem, by any means, but not trivial either.

[EFlannum]

Hey guys, Thought I’d weigh in with my thoughts on the free-for-all PvP thing since It’s something I’m personally interested in. I am a pretty big fan of open world PvP having really enjoyed it in games like Shadowbane, UO, and various PvP servers in other MMO’s. Heck I remember having a lot of fun on the old EQ “race war” servers.

All of that being said Guild Wars 2 is just not that game. We could probably get a hacked together version of an FFA PvP server up and running but it just wouldn’t be very good without a lot of fundamental changes to the game. I think that’s where a lot of games go wrong with open world PvP and why it gets such a bad name, it often tends to be added in as an afterthought and just doesn’t mesh well with all the other things the game is trying to accomplish. Whether you’re talking battlegrounds, RvR, or open world PvP a game really needs to be built with PvP in mind or it’s just going to be a subpar experience. I think many people equate that subpar experience with it always being bad. That’s a shame because I can certainly envision some open world PvP games that wouldn’t necessarily have to come with all the baggage that people hate about that experience.

I certainly hope that some developer comes along and makes a solid open world PvP game because I’d really love to play it, but that game is not going to be GW2.

[Reldan]

I certainly hope that some developer comes along and makes a solid open world PvP game because I’d really love to play it, but that game is not going to be GW2.

Part of me would like to see this, but another jaded part doesn’t think it’s possible nowadays. I’m really curious about how a solid design would avoid the pitfalls of other games in this genre.

I almost feel like you pretty much have it as good as it’s going to get with the WvW implementation. It’s dynamic enough to be exciting but controlled enough to enforce competitive fair play.

[Reldan]

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/zs2j6/introducing_guild_wars_2_combat_mode/

Guild Wars 2 Combat Mode

Toggle Combat Mode on and off with any key you choose. Combat Mode transforms Guild Wars 2 movement and targeting into that of a true action game. The cursor becomes a fixed crosshair (of your choice) at the center of the screen. Moving the mouse now turns your character and camera (as if the right button was held, like a 3rd person shooter). Right Click becomes anything you want; Dodge? Weapon Swap? Whatever you choose.

Current Features:
Crosshair, with crosshair targeting
Lots of crosshair choices, with easily customizable styles, sizes and colours (beta currently only has 3)
No more need to hold Right Click to turn the camera
Eliminates the need to TAB target
The normal manual method of targeting makes it impossible to turn, strafe and mouse target at the same time. Combat Mode allows you to perform all 3 easily at the same time
Changes the Right Click to another action; Dodge, spell, weapon swap, etc
Seamless intergration with GW2. Opening panels such as Inventory and Hero Panel will switch you out of Combat Mode
Easy to install and use, very low performance impact, if any at all
Useful for disabled and RSI inflicted gamers
Simple to keep up to date with a version check built in (website not up until september 15)
Heres the download[1]
It turns the game into an action thing. Kinda need, cool script.

Here’s something over on reddit. Not sure what the official position on something like this is and haven’t tried it myself in the event this is considered taboo, but the general idea seems to be cool. Seems like at a minimum it’d be good for disabled folks to reduce the number of simultaneous presses needed at times.