Guild Wars 2?

Octagus · 2012-09-19T19:26:58.000Z

I’d love a detailed stat breakdown. Stats like how much damage each skill did, how much you healed yourself, how much you healed others, how much you absorbed etc.

Derbain · 2012-09-19T21:22:18.000Z

beloved one:

I seriously wish they’d improve the score handling on SPVP and TPVP … They really need to add some way to bring up the score tab. As I understand it, the only time you get to see your personal stats is at the final second of the game.

The B key I believe.

Mark_Asher · 2012-09-19T22:18:37.000Z

Razgon:

Well, you dont really seem to like the game, and I assume thats not true of most people playing the game.

What I’m not crazy about is PvE in an MMO that at its core is similar to PvE in other MMOs. I’ve done thousands of hours of PvE and fighting AI-controlled monsters where success or failure in large part is predetermined by level doesn’t really interest me.

I do like the WvW so far, with some reservations.

Overall I’m quite impressed with the game and all the innovative things Anet has come up with. That the PvE doesn’t interest me is probably due to my burnout with MMO PvE more than anything else. It’s not limited to GW2 either. I haven’t leveled a WoW character to the cap beyond my initial three characters.

Kyle700 · 2012-09-20T01:05:48.000Z

The B key will show you your PvP stats.

After playing sPvP a bunch, I really think that Mesmers are ‘that class’ in this game. They are just EXTREMELY EXTREMELY EXTREMELY obnoxius to fight against. 3 clones at me, invis, 4 clones, 6 clones, invisible half the time, no idea what is going on, particle effects everywhere. When I manage to target the actual guy (which is BLOODY hard to do!) he either disappears or gets the illusions to body block for him!

God, I can deal with everything else so far (maybe heartseeker thiefs are a little broken) but the mesmers are just insanity… Literally.

Other than that, sPvP is quite fun. Oh, wait, one more whine moment: Raid of the Capricorn. God damn, that map is awful. Sharks are overpowered, underwater combat sucks, the cannon is just bad. Oh well, tournaments solve that problem pretty well.

Derbain · 2012-09-20T01:40:08.000Z

Yes, without a doubt, Capricorn is my least favorite of the sPvP maps. To me, that map means it’s time to drop back to the Mists.

As for the mesmers, I can usually handle it when there’s one. If there’s more than one (and particularly if they’re the same race), I just get totally confused.

Octagus · 2012-09-20T05:03:11.000Z

Unless it’s been changed, you can just mark the mesmer with target assist and you’ll always know which one is the real mesmer.

Reldan · 2012-09-20T07:02:32.000Z

Mark Asher:

What I’m not crazy about is PvE in an MMO that at its core is similar to PvE in other MMOs. I’ve done thousands of hours of PvE and fighting AI-controlled monsters where success or failure in large part is predetermined by level doesn’t really interest me.

What’s your take on the dungeons, especially on Explorable? Those to me do not factor level in much at all aside from having a prerequisite to enter them.

A solid team of 5 level 40s could run AC Explorable where a PUG team of level 80s would fail.

Wolff · 2012-09-20T07:13:21.000Z

Plus success in gw2 is not really dependent on level since you can’t over level zones/events. A lvl 40 going to a starter will get killed quickly if playing dumb.

Mark_Asher · 2012-09-20T07:34:40.000Z

KevinC:

I’m curious what perspective you’re viewing this from, Mark, so I hope you don’t mind me asking why you wish you were 80 now? The reason I ask (and it’s been pointed out already, so apologies for repeating) is that you’ll be doing the same things at 80 you’re doing at 31 - dynamic events, WvW, harvesting, crafting, etc. So is it a particular build you need to be 80 for, wanting to have explored all the zones, or something else?

Personal opinion, but the game works best when you’re trying not to level - you don’t need to. Do whatever sounds fun, levels will roll in, and suddenly you’re 80 before you know it. I gained about 25-30 levels in WvW without consciously trying to do so (which is kinda cool because now with alts there’s tons and tons of zones I’ve never even been to before and get to see for the first time). If nothing in the game is fun/engaging for you now, it’s unfortunately not going to change at 80. It’s not the traditional model of “The real game starts at end game”. About the only thing different is that Orr is a harder zone than lower level zones and can get seriously nasty if you’re playing on lower population servers and the dynamic events are going against you… one of the reasons I love playing on low pop servers (that and no WvW queues, woo!). :)

I’m only really interested in WvW, though perhaps the dungeons are fun but I didn’t see any on my way to level 31 – did I miss them or do I have to be higher level to do them? It’s not that I want to be 80 as much as I want to be as effective as I can be in WvW, which means I’d like the skill points and trait points you get as you level to 80. Maybe I don’t really need them, but if I don’t need them then why even give them to me when I make a level? They must have value.

And to be clear, sometimes I am in the mood for a bit of PvE. I don’t have to think much and it can be relaxing in a sort of hypnotic way to do some PvE now and then.

I hope Anet adds more variety to the PvP game types too. I’d like something like Warsong Gulch, Defense of the Ancients, Wintergrasp, and Alterac Valley. (I’d also like it we had an option to get XP in PvP instead of whatever currency it is we now get. I enjoyed running battlegrounds in Warhammer and leveling that way.)

Mark_Asher · 2012-09-20T07:38:49.000Z

Reldan:

What’s your take on the dungeons, especially on Explorable? Those to me do not factor level in much at all aside from having a prerequisite to enter them.

A solid team of 5 level 40s could run AC Explorable where a PUG team of level 80s would fail.

I have not experienced any dungeons yet. My main character, an engineer, is only level 31. I don’t really have much of an understanding of the synergy among class types either. What role would my engineer have in a dungeon group? Do I just pour on the DPS, watch my health bar, and make sure I get out of the way of any circles that indicate something nasty is going to drop there?

Reldan · 2012-09-20T08:00:09.000Z

Mark Asher:

I have not experienced any dungeons yet. My main character, an engineer, is only level 31. I don’t really have much of an understanding of the synergy among class types either. What role would my engineer have in a dungeon group? Do I just pour on the DPS, watch my health bar, and make sure I get out of the way of any circles that indicate something nasty is going to drop there?

30 is the starting point for dungeons - you can run Ascalonian Catacombs in Story mode at 30 (with the three Explorable mode versions unlocking at 35).

You would be doing all three of those things at once, while also trying to keep your teammates rallied if they go down, plus doing whatever else might be relevant to the particular encounter you’re in.

The more difficult dungeon encounters reward teamwork and people successfully pulling off their roles, however the roles are not the standard Trinity and they’re not necessarily locked to only be doable by specific classes or archetypes. One encounter might require someone to be triggering a series of traps or a mortar cannon while engaged in a fight with mobs while the rest of the group is fighting down on the floor - most classes can perform this role if played well, but it comes down to skill and timing more than anything.

JM1 · 2012-09-20T09:02:30.000Z

Mark Asher:

I’d like something like … Wintergrasp, and Alterac Valley.

You are a bad, bad man.

(I’d also like it we had an option to get XP in PvP instead of whatever currency it is we now get. I enjoyed running battlegrounds in Warhammer and leveling that way.)

In sPVP? It’s probably never going to happen. There’s such a massive disconnect between sPVP and your “PVE/WvW” character that to enable sPVP to be a levelling mechanic would make no real sense.

skyride · 2012-09-20T09:39:07.000Z

JM:

In sPVP? It’s probably never going to happen. There’s such a massive disconnect between sPVP and your “PVE/WvW” character that to enable sPVP to be a levelling mechanic would make no real sense.

I don’t see why it wouldn’t work. How about giving more tangible reward like a skill point for each rank of sPvP?

Imagine how many more people would be playing sPvP if you could level through it. Isn’t that what they want? If it’s supposed to be an e-sports mode, you want the player pool to be as large as possible. It might even lower those horrible WvW queues a little.

You are allowed to level through crafting, exploration and WvW, I don’t see how adding another way to earn xp will break the game.

JM1 · 2012-09-20T10:26:32.000Z

skyride:

I don’t see why it wouldn’t work. How about giving more tangible reward like a skill point for each rank of sPvP?

That would be fine, actually.

You are allowed to level through crafting, exploration and WvW, I don’t see how adding another way to earn xp will break the game.

Crafting, exploration, and WvW are all things you do with the character you’ve progressed and the gear you’ve created. sPVP characters are maxed-out clones and the only things that identify them are the name and looks. What you do in sPVP is done with gear that has been given to you and should remain separate from the progression that’s inherent in the rest of the game.

You have to earn something in this game! :)

Mark_Asher · 2012-09-20T10:28:34.000Z

skyride:

I don’t see why it wouldn’t work. How about giving more tangible reward like a skill point for each rank of sPvP?

Imagine how many more people would be playing sPvP if you could level through it. Isn’t that what they want? If it’s supposed to be an e-sports mode, you want the player pool to be as large as possible. It might even lower those horrible WvW queues a little.

You are allowed to level through crafting, exploration and WvW, I don’t see how adding another way to earn xp will break the game.

Yeah, I don’t see why sPvP can’t be an alternate character advancement opportunity. Why not let players who enjoy sPvP get XP from it?

On a different track, I hope Anet makes the badges you get for player kills in WvW an automatic collection. It’s a drag to have to loot a bag. I know I miss a lot of loot because the battles are chaotic. You could still have bag drops for the random loot but when I participate in a player kill I should get the reward for it without having to loot.

Mark_Asher · 2012-09-20T10:36:19.000Z

JM:

That would be fine, actually.

Crafting, exploration, and WvW are all things you do with the character you’ve progressed and the gear you’ve created. sPVP characters are maxed-out clones and the only things that identify them are the name and looks. What you do in sPVP is done with gear that has been given to you and should remain separate from the progression that’s inherent in the rest of the game.

You have to earn something in this game! :)

But why shouldn’t my time spent playing sPvP reward me? If I spent that same time doing PvE I’d be rewarded. It’s like I’m being penalized for choosing sPvP because it halts my character advancement. One of the reasons why I don’t play it is because there are no rewards for playing it that mean anything to me. Believe me, if I got XP for playing it I’d play it every night.

I don’t buy into the argument that because we’re geared up in sPvP and have all our skill points, etc., that it means we have nothing to strive for. We’re striving to advance our character for WvW. Some of us would rather skip the PvE stuff and just fight other players and leveling the playing field in sPvP is a good thing.

KevinC · 2012-09-20T10:45:16.000Z

Mark Asher:

But why shouldn’t my time spent playing sPvP reward me?

Play sPVP for the competition or the fun. Your sPVP character has nothing to do with your standard character, other than sharing a class and name I guess. Perhaps this is me not understanding the MMO mindset, but I don’t understand why it has to reward your PVE character in any tangible way when you’re not playing your PVE character. I played shooters for years and never wondered where the reward was… the reward was the entertainment of a well-fought match.

I like sPVP being completely divorced from the rest of the game. There’s no reason to grind PVE stuff for SPVP and there’s no reason to grind sPVP for PVE. I’m pretty happy with sPVP being completely sandboxed from everything else.

Wolff · 2012-09-20T10:49:12.000Z

What do you mean by “leveling the playing field”

Reldan · 2012-09-20T11:11:21.000Z

sPvP provides account level benefits - your accumulated Glory and Glory rank are tied to your account, not to the character you’re playing. You should be able to play whatever you like in sPvP without worrying that you’re being inefficient with your time because you could be using the matches to be leveling an alt instead.

I think dissociating the sPvP from the PvE was brilliant. Again, if you think the point of the game is leveling, you’re doing it wrong. Outside of an argument over getting up to maybe level 10 doing standard PvE, if you really just want to play WvW, go play WvW. If you want to level in an Open PvP environment, the amount of bonus XP for killing stuff on the WvW maps outside of the usual paths is staggering. I could probably level there faster than doing anything else except maybe story quests.

The rewards in sPvP stay in sPvP, because nobody who isn’t interested in the sPvP really cares what glory rank you’ve achieved. This isn’t a bad thing. The way they structured earning XP for PvP in SW:G was not good - it turned the reward of a fun competitive match being a compelling reason to play in and of itself and twisted it into something rotten. It was considered a good thing if the other team sucked horribly, because it meant at the end of 15 minutes of facerolling them you’d score a bigger reward, even though the match was a farce. Hell, the best scenario was one where you outnumbered the other team because they had players leave, because it meant you were guaranteed a win (big XP gain for winning your daily PvP quest!) and the game was just a matter of going through the motions.

You know what happens in GW2 tPvP if you end up with a 4v5? People on the winning team apologize and everybody feels a bit sad because it results in an unfun game. The people participating enjoy the chase more than the carrot, and that’s a wonderful thing to achieve in a game. It’s what separates a well-designed game from a video slot machine.

PS: There are a handful of things you can earn in sPvP that will transfer back to PvE. Dyes transfer, and you can get Cheevo credit for salvaging PvP gear if you do so outside of the Mists.

skyride · 2012-09-20T11:41:19.000Z

Reldan:

You know what happens in GW2 tPvP if you end up with a 4v5? People on the winning team apologize and everybody feels a bit sad because it results in an unfun game. The people participating enjoy the chase more than the carrot, and that’s a wonderful thing to achieve in a game. It’s what separates a well-designed game from a video slot machine.

Heh, all I see is “1v1 me!” “you guys suck, you zerged me!” and stuff like that. Welcome to MOBA games. It’s no different in GW2. You must have been lucky and got matched with some nice folks. It happens from time to time even in DOTA (no carrot chasing in DOTA so your theory doesn’t explain why the community is so nasty).

I still haven’t seen any good argument why it would be harmful to have some progression to PvE/WvW characters in sPvP. I already mentioned several benefits to doing it that way.