Guild Wars 2?

maxle · 2013-01-07T13:46:51.000Z

In structured PvP there is no gear grind. At all. You have access to a variety of gear and may customize it as you see fit. An experienced player’s statistical advantage over a new player will come from his knowledge of how to put together an optimal build, not tokens ground over the course of months.

WvWvW is approximately like WoW, insofar as gearing works.

Shadari · 2013-01-07T14:11:42.000Z

maxle:

WvWvW is approximately like WoW, insofar as gearing works.

Well that’s disappointing to hear. I was under the impression that GW2, even the WvWvW aspect, didn’t require anywhere near the same level of grinding as WoW.

Wolff · 2013-01-07T14:12:53.000Z

Zuwadza:

The amount of XP, karma, and gold is pretty low. Really a tiny fraction of what you would get grinding the PvE. The badges? How does one even get these? I think I have a couple. Do you have to be the one to finish a player to get them? Anyway, it’d be nice to get something for healing other players or building and repairing

Yeah, I get the Planetside 2 comparison, since I sometimes spend tons of time wandering for base to base doing jack squat. Is melee ever useful in large scale fights? Seems like you can’t do squat as a melee character.

There are no melee characters in gw2 for sure there are melee builds but no character is restricted to melee.

Wolff · 2013-01-07T14:18:35.000Z

Shadari:

Well that’s disappointing to hear. I was under the impression that GW2, even the WvWvW aspect, didn’t require anywhere near the same level of grinding as WoW.

It is not like wow. You get upleveled and your gear gets leveled up as well. To get to decent gear for WvW doesn’t take long at all. This isn’t wow were the difference between seasons is huge.

Instead of thinking well this is how wow did it so it probably works this way, think that sucked in wow wonder how gw2 made it better. Also watch this:

MrPerson · 2013-01-07T14:25:58.000Z

GW2 was supposed to be nearly grind free for top end gear, in that there was an absolute top gear tier, and it wasn’t hard to get. You might have to work a bit to get the exact stat blend you want, but the long term grind was SUPPOSED to be cosmetic.

However, they backpedaled on that shortly after launch and decided they needed to start down the WoW gear progression path, so I’d say all bets are off. They’ve tried to disguise it in marketspeak, but the original design principle seems to be gone, and the wow-clone gear treadmill is in its place.

Wolff · 2013-01-07T14:42:34.000Z

MrPerson:

GW2 was supposed to be nearly grind free for top end gear, in that there was an absolute top gear tier, and it wasn’t hard to get. You might have to work a bit to get the exact stat blend you want, but the long term grind was SUPPOSED to be cosmetic.

However, they backpedaled on that shortly after launch and decided they needed to start down the WoW gear progression path, so I’d say all bets are off. They’ve tried to disguise it in marketspeak, but the original design principle seems to be gone, and the wow-clone gear treadmill is in its place.

This is really not true

O’Brien said it was “important” for Guild Wars 2 to have that kind of “gradual” progression. And although “we made some mistakes with the way we introduced Ascended gear”, he added, “I don’t think they invalidate the fundamental concept that GW2 can have gradual stat progression without being a gear treadmill game”.

This is left over from when they announced ascended gear and the community freaked out over what amounted to not much.

MrPerson · 2013-01-07T14:43:31.000Z

That doesn’t refute what I said. That is just PR speak for gear treadmill.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside

Seriously, that is some hilarious bullshit right there. They exactly describe implementing a gear treadmill, but it’s not a treadmill, because they say it isn’t…

Wolff · 2013-01-07T14:45:33.000Z

What you said was wow-clone treadmill, go check out rep-grind gear-grind and gating in wow and compare to gw2. They aren’t even close.

Shadari · 2013-01-07T14:48:46.000Z

MrPerson:

That doesn’t refute what I said. That is just PR speak for gear treadmill.

I understand that there’s a treadmill in GW2, but it was my understanding that this treadmill was much more laid back than the one in WoW, which while not nearly as bad as it was back in the old days, is still a pain for someone like me that works full-time and has limited time for gaming.

DustyTheHamster · 2013-01-07T15:12:37.000Z

So having just started up GW2 I decided to check out RvR this past weekend. As a level 18 Thief I started on sunday afternoon porting to my servers borderlands and by the end of the night I was 20, had found 5 upgrades for gear, gained a nice chunk of karma, and completed my monthly Kill 50 world invaders part. The thing I noticed most in RvR was that you don’t get the trait/skill boost like you do in PvP, so there was no access to the level 40 or 60 bonuses. Still an enjoyable experience on my end from the part of a low level thief with only 8 trait points and out leveled gear.

Derbain · 2013-01-07T16:49:48.000Z

Regarding gear. You can literally go to the trading post(auction house) and buy best in slot gear for every single slot except the two ring slots and your back slot the moment you hit 80. Heck, you can buy it before your 80, you just cannot equip it until 80. The GW2 gear ‘treadmill’ has no resemblance whatsoever to WoW outside of those three gear slots.

On top of that, you will never be in a position where you can absolutely say that an opponent beat you because he had ascended rings and back piece and you did not. If you do find yourself saying that, you’re probably lying to yourself.

In short, there is a gear treadmill if you look hard enough, but to suggest it’s just like WoW is ludicrous.

Nephrinn · 2013-01-07T17:01:42.000Z

GW2’s “treadmill” comes in the form of looks rather than stats. The “grind” involved with acquiring a legendary is absolutely insane, but that’s the most extreme example. WvW gear and race Tier 3 armor are ridiculously expensive (IMO) and you’ll definitely be running dungeons for a long time before you’ll be able to buy a full set.

And I put “treadmill” and “grind” in quotes because for some people, like me, just play the game and have fun until you have enough stuff to make something. But I can understand how that might be considered a grind to some.

fdsaion · 2013-01-07T17:40:07.000Z

I feel that people complaining about the introduced ascended gear really are making a mountain out of nothing (at thus point in time, subject to revision). Not once have I desired a piece of ascended gear or felt that it would make a major difference in performance over exotics. Even so in WvW, where coordination, positioning, and skill usage play considerably more importance.

As for the costs of obtaining exotics - a full set of exotics in GW2 probably runs around 10-20 gold (wide range depending on popularity of stat allocation) in actual (aka buying the piece you want) and opportunity (aka using up and not selling the materials you used to craft) costs.

To put that in context - hardcore grinders in their quest for a legendary* apparently averaged 2g an hour (basically selling everything they got on the trading post). In less crazy mode, a dungeon rewards 26s (100s=1g) on completion, and the drops you get probably net you another 30-50s. The “easy” dungeon paths can be run in 20 minutes. Fractal dungeons have even better drops (but no guaranteed cash). And that’s the monetary path to exotics. This can be supplemented by Dungeon armor sets, or Orr karma armor. And drops, of course.

You should be able to afford most of a set by the time you even get to 80.

Legendaries run up to 1000g in material costs, and have no stat differences from exotics at this moment

Shadari · 2013-01-07T17:59:49.000Z

Thanks for all the info, guys. I’m definitely gonna take a break from WoW and spend some time in GW2. Worst case is that I end up not liking it and go back to WoW next season.

One other question: So there’s supposed to be a shop where you can use real money to purchase in-game items such as cosmetic upgrades and what not. Where the hell is it? I can’t seem to find it. :(

fdsaion · 2013-01-07T18:04:06.000Z

Zuwadza:

The amount of XP, karma, and gold is pretty low. Really a tiny fraction of what you would get grinding the PvE. The badges? How does one even get these? I think I have a couple. Do you have to be the one to finish a player to get them? Anyway, it’d be nice to get something for healing other players or building and repairing

Yeah, I get the Planetside 2 comparison, since I sometimes spend tons of time wandering for base to base doing jack squat. Is melee ever useful in large scale fights? Seems like you can’t do squat as a melee character.

Zuwadza:

Where do you normally play, one of the borderlands or eternal battleground? I’ve gotten better XP from hitting my own borderland, but still nothing compared to the same amount of time grinding PvE content. I get nothing from Eternal Battleground though, since it always seems to come down to zerg vs. zerg and something as simple as taking a supply camp can take ages.

It can be really timing dependent. Usually it’s probably not the best place to level, but when the train rolls, it rolls.

Last week Wednesday was absolutely nuts in terms of activity. We had basically somehow managed to secure Stonemist (first time in the Maguuma/Yaks Bend/Ehmry Bay matchup that anyone other than YB held it) for some time overnight from Tuesday, which triggered waves of activity in all borderlands and eternal battlegrounds as everyone was maneuvering for advantage all over.

Melee is important in small group fights. In larger fights, it often actually has decisive impact, but you absolutely must hit in force from a flank. I believe this is because raged AOE has a 5 target limit and melee does not, and also with many melee attacks being AOE as well.

blah · 2013-01-07T18:18:18.000Z

Wolff:

There are no melee characters in gw2 for sure there are melee builds but no character is restricted to melee.

Which is just a round about way of saying, “no, they aren’t viable in large scale fights”.

DustyTheHamster · 2013-01-07T18:37:11.000Z

Shadari:

One other question: So there’s supposed to be a shop where you can use real money to purchase in-game items such as cosmetic upgrades and what not. Where the hell is it? I can’t seem to find it. :(

" O " by default or the Black Lion option in the top of the ui hud.

tomchick · 2013-01-07T20:22:33.000Z

Shadari:

So there’s supposed to be a shop where you can use real money to purchase in-game items such as cosmetic upgrades and what not. Where the hell is it? I can’t seem to find it. :(

I love that someone has to ask this. If it was any other game, the shop would totally be all up in your face. Hi, LOTRO!

-Tom

Cobra · 2013-01-08T01:22:30.000Z

The loot in this game is very weird. Once I hit 80 with my first character(Ranger) I only had 2 gold and something. Same thing with my 2nd(Warrior) and 3rd(Mesmer) character. Now I’ve started my 4th character(Elementalist) and I’ve already collected 2 gold at level 21. Granted unid dye and some other items weren’t worth much back then but it feels like some characters are just born with luck.

Wolff · 2013-01-08T01:41:16.000Z

blah!:

Which is just a round about way of saying, “no, they aren’t viable in large scale fights”.

Well one way is implying certain classes are at a huge disadvantage while the other way implies thinking about how you can be more than fodder. There is no way to make melee work really well for solo players. As someone mentioned above a heavy melee group can absolutely wreck havoc in WvW through flanking and other means.