Unless you’re planning to use “meaningfully” as a weasel word so you can reframe the discussion, you’re making the claims someone would make who hasn’t even played the games he’s talking about. I’ve played all of the games you list and not one of them even attempts a personal storyline (i.e. a branching narrative built based on choices you make for your character when you create him as well as while you’re playing, all of which funnel into the overarching storyline).
-Tom
I have played every single game that I just referenced for at least a month and in multiple cases substantially longer. I don’t know why you think the questing in GW2 being framed as a “personal” storyline makes it different than the questing in those games, but I certainly don’t see it.
Before I saw your reply, I had edited my post to include a parenthetical explanation of how the personal storylines work, in case you were as unfamiliar with Guild Wars 2 as you seem to be.
-Tom
I understand how the personal storylines in GW2 work. I don’t understand why you think this makes GW2’s questing equivalent to a singleplayer RPG instead of typical MMO questing, despite the extreme structural similarity to the latter and the almost complete lack of any resemblance to the former. It’s possible I might be more impressed by the simple existence of branching quests if the writing, characterization and pacing made those branches meaningful (and evident) choices instead of arbitrary dart throws, but that’s not the GW2 I’ve played. And they’d still be MMO quests.
tomchick
5365
What on earth are you talking about? You asserted that the personal stories in Guild Wars 2 have been done better in other MMOs. When challenged on that, you listed MMOs that don’t even have personal stories. And now you’ve packed up the goalposts and moved to an entirely different city. How’s the weather over there?
-Tom
MrPerson
5366
I’m not sure why you think the personal story is so amazing compared to other MMOs. Is it the branching? If so, that’s basically meaningless. It has no real impact on anything, and at its core is almost identical to a traditional quests per hub setup with racial subzones, except you choose one of the quests at each hub and skip the others. Everyone ends up in exactly the same place, and nothing you choose matters. If it’s something else, I’m not even sure what that something else would be. The player character being center stage is nothing new.
Kildar
5367
Just bought from Amazon since its on sale While its downloading, I do have a few questions, hope you guys don’t mind answering: do I get to change servers with my made chars? also is there like a QT3 guild that I can join? Is it playable with a 360 controller?
I guess it depends on your definition of what it means to matter. I’ve got four characters going, each with unique episodic storylines taking them through different parts of the world, each with unique achievements, and each with one of three factions to choose that determines their place in the overall storyline. Some of them I actually enjoy and kind of care about (the asura stuff about rogue golems, for instance). Does that “matter”? Does it “matter” any more than coloring my boots, or choosing an item that boosts power over toughness, or helping the quaggan emissary reach the polar bear people?
It’s cool if you don’t like it, as seems to be the case with malkav. But it’s a unique selling point for Guild Wars 2 that you won’t find in other non-Star Wars themed MMOs.
-Tom
They used to have free server transfers, but I think you have to pay for them now. The Qt3 guild is in Ehmry Bay. As for playing with your controller, go play Halo, n00b!
Kidding! :) I’m not sure if you can use a controller. Guild Wars 2 is more streamlined than a lot of MMOs, so you might be able to pull it off.
-Tom
Okay, let me break down the argument I’ve been making for you: Telefrog, (and you in the past), have cited GW2’s personal storyline as being “like a singleplayer RPG”. I take issue with that idea, and suggest that in fact the personal storyline is in virtually every respect other than the branching identical to questing in any other MMO. Your rebuttal is that it’s different because it branches. Well, sure. I already acknowledged that. But I don’t think that distinguishes it in any sort of relevant gameplay or mechanical sense from other MMO questing. It’s a distinction that matters primarily, indeed singularly, in terms of narrative. And while I get that that branching is a lot of work and it’s sort of impressive that they did it, I would assert that there’s only any real payoff from it if a) you can bring yourself to care at all about the storyline it presents (which I personally cannot), and b) if you can tell that it’s branching (from my perspective it may as well be a straight linear shot so far because if it’s branched based on my decisions, there were no cues that this happened and I’m certainly not going to run another character of the same race with a different set of choices at the start). Personally, I’d much rather have WoW’s quests (which vary a lot more in terms of mechanics, goals, and presentation than GW2 has so far, and occasionally tell an interesting and exciting story), or The Secret World’s quests (which have much better writing to my tastes and introduce compelling adventure gaming mechanics into the genre).
And actually, come to think of it, if your criteria is branching, TOR doesn’t really do that as far as I know, though its story quests do involve dialogue trees and instanced encounters.
Sure, it’s a unique selling point, kinda, but I think you’re a lot better off focusing on the things GW2 does well, like the day to day exploration and event chaining in the main zones, the painless crafting and gathering, the uniquely approachable WvWvW mode PvP, etc, instead of the point where it’s closest to being just another MMO.
kedaha
5371
Wait, people like the personal storyline in GW2? I found mine (so far) so piss poor that I’ve started skipping the cutscenes half way through and the actual quest parts are short, disconnected and not particularly interesting.
Nope. I didn’t like it either, but then again I’ve only played the human one so far. I’ve heard a couple of the other races get better stories. I may find out someday.
Regardless of my opinion on the quality, I still maintain that I’ve never seen another MMO present a questline with 20+ hours of content as a separate singleplayer RPG. Since Scamper’s original question was regarding the story in this game, that’s all my answer was about.
And my point is that you still haven’t seen one do that, since the personal storyline in GW2 is not remotely equivalent to a singleplayer RPG.
Whatever. I’m not going to waste my time debating this with you. You’ve obviously got an opinion on it and that’s your perogative. I don’t think I’m going to convince you that Guild Wars 2’s personal story quests are an “amazing” thing to have in the game, nor am I going to get you to think that they are presented like a singleplayer RPG. Conversely, you’re not going to convince me that they aren’t special in the MMO world and you’re not going to make me think that they’re just like every other MMO’s presentation.
I don’t know why you’re so passionate about this. You’re adamant that no one else can be even the littlest bit impressed that they have this feature in Guild Wars 2. Have at it, man.
kedaha
5375
Oh aye, I wouldn’t argue that it isn’t unique (or at least, I’ve never come across something similar). I would perhaps argue that it isn’t any good though :)
Well, I genuinely don’t understand why the mere existence of branching is in and of itself such an amazing thing. It’s possibly novel in the context of an MMO, but it doesn’t significantly affect the actual gameplay and it’s not exactly a new thing in gaming. But if you want to be amazed by that, I guess have at it. I would probably be more impressed by it myself if, as I’ve said, the execution were of the standard that GW2 holds itself to elsewhere.
But describing that facet of GW2 as being a singleplayer RPG or even much like one is so misleading as to be a flat out lie, and I take exception to that.
Joe_M
5377
It’s not amazing in and of itself. As some added flavor to a game already full to the brim with content and fun things to do, it’s a neat diversion that some players may enjoy. Or not. Fortunately, it’s all optional.
But ok, now we know malkav takes exception, so if you are a pedant about how people employ the term “singleplayer RPG” there is a narrow enough definition where it may not apply in this specific instance. For the rest of us, the presence of dialogue choices, cut scenes, quests and adventure all fit the bill, whether one enjoys any of it or not.
Just a clarification. I don’t think the quests themselves are amazing. (In fact, I find them a bit tedious and inadvertently comical.) I think the fact that they’re in the game at all is amazing.
Has any single player RPG’s offer of “branching quests” ever met up to the hype? Maybe a bit sometimes, but I don’t think the gap between mechanics “affectability” in single-player RPGs branching and the GW2 story branching is all that great.
It’s really only in terms of the writing where there’s a big gap - the wittiness of the dialogue, the cleverness of situations, etc., etc. Videogames have only intermittently approached the kinds of standards you get in literature (even s-f). They have sometimes gotten there, in magic moments, but it’s quite rare. The writing in GW2 is definitely patchy, but again, I’ve seen worse even in single-player CRPGs.
So I think on both counts it’s a bit unfair to single out GW2’s solo mode as not matching up to single-player CRPGs - a) because the gap isn’t that big, and b) because the standard of single-player CRPGs isn’t that great either.
OTOH if one is talking about the sheer game designers’ feat of being able to include this kind of single-player branching storyline in an MMO, surely it is quite impressive, in the context of the total feat of producing a quality MMO. SWTOR did (mostly) good story, but the rest of the MMO as an MMO didn’t match up to GW2. TSW’s story is pretty good (and I think the writing does sometimes approach good genre literature), but again, the MMO side doesn’t quite match up.
With GW2 you have a high quality MMO and (at worst, compared to other MMO stories and single-player games) an uneven but mostly entertaining-enough single-player story with a little bit of branching that matters. I don’t know if i’d call that amazing, but it’s very impressive to me.
You mean the things that are, to one degree or another, present in a wide variety of other MMOs that no one has ever accused of feeling like, much less being, a singleplayer RPG? That are, in fact, present in plenty of games that aren’t RPGs of any sort?
Okay.
Anyone buying GW2 expecting a singleplayer RPG experience is going to be severely disappointed. On the other hand, someone looking for a polished, smartly designed evolutionary step forward in MMO design will probably have a whale of a time. Why sell it as something it’s not?
