Guild Wars 2?

[Shellfishguy]

Yes Tom, I have tried some of the other classes and none of them managed to catch my interest. And I’m not crossing my arms and holding my breath in defiance here. I just don’t see from their announcement that there is much in the expansion that really interests me. Different stroke for different folks, amazing I know!

[fdsaion]

That really is true. You can’t even have a coherent build until your 60s due to how slowly the trait lines unlock, and that’s probably 40 or more so hours into the game for someone who’s not powerleveling?

Until then, all you have is exploration and story. Someone’s who is primarily interested in playing with mechanics is just out of luck until much later in the game. It really is a weakness.

And even then, it’s not that important or a difference-maker in PvE that boils down to autoattack, dodge red circle. I went looking for my last post about that when rob brought that up awhile ago - this still applies =p

…That said, “builds” in GW2 really aren’t something until near max level…
Anyway, here’s a really good example of the potential depth of GW2 combat (there is alot going on there that he isn’t even talking about due to “assumed” knowledge too). Mesmers, Thieves, and Elementalists all trend towards this type of “kinetic” style. Certain rangers builds too. Necros/Warriors/Guardians less so.

The flipside of that is that this type of combat only really shows up in small scale WWW (the server vs server battlegrounds) fights and SPVP (which also is more build restrictive due to the objective being “sit on a point.” And this type of combat reactivity very rarely shows itself in PVE. There are awesome moments where you, through timely usage of skills, save your dungeon party from disaster. But the vast majority of PVE is basically autoattack + dodge red circle.

[fdsaion]

Well you’d be getting started on MMOs that aren’t GW2, since you can jump into a structured PvP game after hitting level 21 and have all class abilities and exotic equipment unlocked. Should give you a good feel for the combat at endgame.

Fortunately you only have to unlock it once, so as soon as you get one character to 21 you can just create a new level 1 character of any other class and do the same thing. Instant level 80 trial mode.

You don’t even need to hit 21 - just go through the portal in Lion’s Arch.

It’s just hidden for “new” players so they don’t get confused (really weird justification)

[malkav11]

Very glad to hear they didn’t do a level cap increase. This is really not the kind of game that even needs levels to begin with, much less more pointless levels between the xpac and the good stuff. The xpac content will all be valid level cap content, rather than one or two leveling zones you go through once and never see again and then one or two level 90 zones you actually care about. Great choice.

Speaking as someone who was disappointed by how they largely abandoned the original Guild Wars philosophy of capping the level early (at 20!) and making the game mostly about assembling a great skill build and expanding your range of options, I tend to agree.

[tomchick]

Yes Tom, I have tried some of the other classes and none of them managed to catch my interest. And I’m not crossing my arms and holding my breath in defiance here. I just don’t see from their announcement that there is much in the expansion that really interests me. Different stroke for different folks, amazing I know!

Well, we’re in the same boat then, because I’m not terribly fired up about the expansion either.

-Tom

[Jab]

What’s the deal with the digital deluxe edition, is it worth the extra $5?

[charmtrap]

It’s just a pet and some boosters, IIRC. For $5 it’s probably worth it.

[DarthMasta]

I played a lot of GW1, and as good and improved GW2 is, the hunting for skills that GW1 had, it almost reminded me of building a deck in a CCG, GW2 IMO is inferior in that

Still, amazing value, and I hope the new expansion works out.

[robc04]

And don’t get me started on rob04 announcing he doesn’t like the combat based on his level 15 character. :)

I definitely put more than a couple hours into it. I didn’t do anything to try and level particularly quickly. I just followed some quests (both story / non story) and looked for things to discover.

But in my post I was conceding that I haven’t played a lot and hence my question which I still don’t feel I understand the answer to, “So, what do people consider GW2’s strengths? What might a new player have overlooked that really adds to the game?”

• Is it that people really enjoy the combat but it just takes longer before people find it becomes very good?
• Is it that they like the world exploration or story?
• Are there some gameplay elements I might not even know they exist because they aren’t obvious?
• I think people have said this is a fine MMO to play solo, but do people really like this for PvP or WvW?

[fdsaion]

What’s the deal with the digital deluxe edition, is it worth the extra $5?

It’s just a pet and some boosters, IIRC. For $5 it’s probably worth it.

Probably not.
Bank access golem is only 14 days from first use IIRC.
Mini pet is well, a mini pet.
Elite skill is probably not something you would end up using.

[magnet]

If you spend $5 on gems, you can trade them for enough gold to buy dozens of mini pets.

[Mark_Crump]

Don’t get me started on MMOs. :)

It’s an important point, though. By their very nature, MMOs have to draw out their content over a long period of time. I wouldn’t say you necessarily need to put in 80 hours, but I’ve reviewed plenty of MMOs. My experience is that until you get into the middle levels of the character progression, odds are you haven’t truly seen what it’s offering. And given how much ArenaNet has accelerated the early level progression, hitting level 15 probably takes a few hours, tops. In fact, they offer these doo-dads that let you instantly jump new characters to level 20. It’s sort of as if they’re conceding everything up to level 20 is kind of a tutorial.

-Tom

Well you’d be getting started on MMOs that aren’t GW2, since you can jump into a structured PvP game after hitting level 21 and have all class abilities and exotic equipment unlocked. Should give you a good feel for the combat at endgame.

Fortunately you only have to unlock it once, so as soon as you get one character to 21 you can just create a new level 1 character of any other class and do the same thing. Instant level 80 trial mode.

For the record, I’ve reviewed, a LOT… a LOT of MMOs, also. They still remain for some reason my favorite genre as well.

I was also being somewhat snarky, but in a light way.

I’m also in Rob04s boat. I’m only level 18. That said, I expect the general mechanics of combat to remain the same as I level. Sure, my skills will change. I’m playing a Ranger and it feels close enough to my WoW hunter that I like it.

In my reviewing days, my general measuring stick is once I got between 25-50% into the game it had to be compelling and fun to get a good score for me. This is for new games; expansions were a while different beast.

That said, Guild Wars 2 hasn’t completely grabbed me yet. I’m not sure why since it checks off a lot of things I like in an MMO. I love the heart quests and explorations aspect. It remains low on my list of MMOs to play for some reason. I still play WoW, although at max level I just do my dailies and LFR once a week on my two toons. I play EQ2 because I loved EQ and it feels like going home to me. I will spend some time in it over double xp weekend, though.

I don’t have an opinion on the expansion. I wasn’t a fan of the presentation – I felt Jennifer could have come out and announced in-game porta potties and gotten a reaction out of the crowd with her hyped-up personality. The other guys felt like teenagers explaining their new DND campaign. I could be spoiled by just how well Blizzard does these reveals.

If the expansion is just for level 80s, I wonder if they’ll put in a boost mechanism similar to WoW’s level 90 boost to get people into the new content.

[Oghier]

Hang Gliding sounds cool. That’s the one thing that I miss from Archeage :)

[Profanicus]

The thing that annoys a dabbler such as myself about the game is that they give you eight classes but only five character slots. So it really costs an extra $30 if you want to be able to try one of each class without deleting older ones.

But I enjoyed my time with it and will probably dive back in for the expansion. I like exploring but found the environments somewhat repetitive. Underwater was great though. The pace and busy nature of combat was a bit confusing for me in larger fights.

[tomchick]

But in my post I was conceding that I haven’t played a lot and hence my question which I still don’t feel I understand the answer to, “So, what do people consider GW2’s strengths? What might a new player have overlooked that really adds to the game?”

My issue is with the way you’re phrasing the question, as if by level 15 you’ve seen everything, but the problem is that you might have overlooked its strengths. But you’ve seen very little by level 15! You’re still on the first map. You haven’t unlocked a lot of the mechanics. One of the changes ArenaNet made was gating little bits and bobs with the early leveling process, so each time you level up, they drip feed you two or three new features in a pop-up window. You’re going to have a lot more of these coming your way if you keep playing.

I’m not necessarily saying you should keep playing or anything, as it’s absolutely your prerogative to drop a game that hasn’t grabbed you. But I am saying you really haven’t yet seen what Guild Wars 2 can do. It’s not a matter of overlooking, it’s a matter of having not yet seen.

As for the thrust of your question, on a general level, I’d say that what makes Guild Wars 2 special is a handful of things:

• Other players are never a liability. There is virutally no game mechanic that isn’t somehow advantaged by having other players around, and the entire exprerience is carefully engineered to get people to be helpful to each other. This creates a very different multiplayer vibe that nearly any other game I’ve played.

• The dynamic living world stuff as a substitute for the usual quest structure is an incredibly inviting way to lay out the world and pull you through it. It’s just so fluid and lively.

• The variety among the classes, and the extreme flexibility within each class, makes Guild Wars 2 an action RPG almost on par with Diablo III. This is probably what you can least appreciate if you only have a single character at level 15. In fact, if I’m not mistaken, I think you still only have a single utility skill slot. But eventually, the mix-and-match aspect explodes with your choices of 1) character class, 2) weapon, and 3) utility skills, healing skill, and elite skill. You said you don’t like the combat, but perhaps you just haven’t found a build that’s satisfying for you. That’s perfectly understandable. It’s a bit of a slog for me right now with a low level ranger because I’ve gotten so accustomed to the crazy tricks I can do with my necromancer, her pets, her darkside form, her traps, and all her debuffs. But if you like action RPGs, and I know you do, I’m confident there’s a build or two somewhere in Guild Wars 2 that will appeal to you. At this point, I’d encourage you to try all of the warriors different weapons, which can be further combo’ed by various offhand weapons.

• It’s a freakin’ gorgeous game, and you’ll appreciate that as you see different areas. It’s pretty crazy how many paths you can take through the geography as you work your way to the level cap, but the desolation and activity of the endgame Orr stuff is fantastic.

• I don’t normally care for PvP in my MMOs. But the way it works in Guild Wars 2 is just so easy to jump in and out of for casual visits. And the World vs World stuff is really amazing if you bear with it.

• The is no barrier between friends playing with each other. Guild Wars 2 is remarkable in this respect. I can still advance with my level 80 necromancer playing alongside your level 15 warrior. I don’t know of any other MMO that so effectively removes that traditional pain-in-the-ass barrier of players being unable to play alongside friends because someone outleveled someone else, or reached a different point in the storyline, or is on a different server, or is working on quests on the other side of the map. So if you do stick with Guild Wars 2, make sure you jump into the Qt3 guild. A lot of us would love to play alongside you if you jump back in.

  -Tom

[tomchick]

The thing that annoys a dabbler such as myself about the game is that they give you eight classes but only five character slots. So it really costs an extra $30 if you want to be able to try one of each class without deleting older ones.

That is pretty insidious, isn’t it? :)

-Tom

[tomchick]

I’m only level 18. That said, I expect the general mechanics of combat to remain the same as I level. Sure, my skills will change. I’m playing a Ranger and it feels close enough to my WoW hunter that I like it.

Why do you say you expect the general mechanics to remain the same as you level?

Once you’ve unlocked more utility slots, you’ll be able to create all sorts of different character builds that you simply can’t do at level 18 because you don’t have much flexibility. The elite skill alone is makes such a difference for what sort of character build I’ve got going, and I don’t think you even get that slot until level 30 or something. Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you mean by “general mechanics of combat”. Guild Wars 2 is still a mostly traditional MMO in terms of how combat works, but I feel strongly that a level 18 character isn’t playing the same game as a level 80 character.

-Tom

[Mark_Crump]

Why do you say you expect the general mechanics to remain the same as you level?

Once you’ve unlocked more utility slots, you’ll be able to create all sorts of different character builds that you simply can’t do at level 18 because you don’t have much flexibility. The elite skill alone is makes such a difference for what sort of character build I’ve got going, and I don’t think you even get that slot until level 30 or something. Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you mean by “general mechanics of combat”. Guild Wars 2 is still a mostly traditional MMO in terms of how combat works, but I feel strongly that a level 18 character isn’t playing the same game as a level 80 character.

-Tom

I fail at making myself clear. I meant the general mechanics of how combat works in the game: you have your skill slots, fight to survive, etc. Your class and level will change a lot of that, but I was referring in general to how combat mechanics work.

For instance, it’s different than WoW in that you can’t have 5 action bars of various skills.

[Mike_Cathcart]

Dear MMO developers,
Two people can have the same goddamn name. It’s really not a problem; it happens all the time. There’s like a whole bunch of Mike Cathcarts on the Internet and nothing is fucked because of it. Please figure it out because all of the pronounceable combinations of between 3 and 19 English letters are already taken in Guild Wars 2 and I’m not looking forward to meeting everyone’s brand new Revenants: Yakjhg, Zaseraslekil and Brnlqiohued.

Mike Cathcart.89534578

[robc04]

Thanks for the detailed and thought out reply Tom, I appreciate it. Even though I do take on a negative tone about some games, I didn’t intentionally phrase this inquiry to be negative, or attack GW2 in a passive aggressive way. I guess I did figure I’d seen the basic mechanics already - but not necessarily all the variations that will be offered (like what Mark also said). I’m assuming (maybe incorrectly) that the fundamental way the game is played has been exposed to us, but the variations and different skills haven’t. I don’t really play MMOs (I dabbled in The Secret World and Guild Wars 2) so I really don’t know what normal is.

When I ask if maybe I overlooked something, I’m thinking along the lines of a feature like crafting. I don’t believe I ever crafted anything. I don’t really know what to do to craft - it’s possible I missed some message about it or maybe there isn’t anything to craft at my level. So for whatever reason I haven’t done it even though I’m pretty sure crafting exists. Are there any features that aren’t obvious to a new player, or features that haven’t been introduced that are great (features, not extra skills and abilities even though they may be significant in their own right)?

I did notice that other players don’t ever hinder you. I like that too. I’ve jumped into other peoples’ fights and they’ve jumped into mine. I tend to stay to myself though.

There are so many different kinds of action RPGs and I love some of them - like Dark Souls and Lords of the Fallen. I’ve grown to appreciate Skyrim due to the exploration even though I don’t like the combat. I really enjoyed Dragon Age: Inquisition, mostly for the environments / story / dialog - and a castle full of people sang to me! But while I’ve learned to appreciate some of what Diablo III does, I don’t really like it. I don’t know if GW2 is more like Diablo or a game I’m more favorable about.

I agree that the world is fun to explore. I like my fantasy worlds vibrant with pretty places to visit.

Again, thanks for the reply!