Huh, I hadn’t caught that, even though I’ve watched a 3-4 hours of gameplay. It’s interesting just how little they tell you in the tutorial. I get that they want players to figure stuff out, but I wonder if some of the reviews would have been less harsh if the reviewers had a better understanding of the mechanics.
So it was kind of late, but I said to myself, “that’s what the Switch’s handheld mode is for.” I intended to just play a single battle, not map mind you, but just a battle, at bed time. Several hours later I looked up to be horrified by my clock. I’m a tired camper today.
In other news, the healing skeletons are super jerks. Even though I am becoming a master of the backstab mechanic (moving back through mobs from down lane) I have not found an effective method for dealing with down lane support. Thus, said healing chumps keep healing monsters back too full every few seconds. Oh, and they tend to come in pairs so they can heal each other. Mix this with an armored spawner dude or plant wall guy and bad things happen. Like being tired at work. ;)
Lol, I watched Vellhart playing again for a bit last night. He had about 10 spells total on his team and was spamming stuff. It was like I was back to seeing the game for the first time and not having a clue what was happening.
After 4 hours of play, I’m ready to declare this game awesome! I love everything about it: art style, unlock progression, randomness, voice acting, combat mechanics, relying on the player to deduce what this and that means–it’s great! Sure, it could use some QoL improvements, such as better tooltip anchors for K&M, names for the Enemies, and a couple other things I’m forgetting. But the combat mechanics are so good!
The maps are like those in Darkest Dungeon populated by randomly seeded Crossroads (their name for encounters), which are alternating small circles connected to large circles containing question marks, so you never know what the large circles contain (small ones, thus far, are either Empty or Battle). Since you can pause at will during battles and issue commands, it’s very welcoming and highly tactical.
After defeating the second boss and unlocking a new ending, I unlocked 79 unlockables, which may now be added to future runs. Unlockables you haven’t encountered in a run are dimmed and their tooltips are question marks, so you’re not quite sure what awaits you! Hope I survive!
For $20, it’s a steal, IMHO.
EDIT: If you want to backtrack along a path you’ve already traveled, you have to use a candle to light the way. Backtrack without one and you get lost in the dark (you lose!). So candle drops during battles are highly valuable. Enemies drop gold in battles and you can purchase keys at at least one Crossroad for locked chests at other Crossroads.
You’ve beaten two bosses (pirates) already? Nice! I keep stalling out around the second mini-boss as I try to get to him. However, I am going for maximizing identifying unlocked gear which makes some tragically bad builds. I’m also experimenting a lot with elemental combinations. This game is deep.
It is definitely a rough and steep learning curve, but that’s all rogue-likes. There is a lot of discovery along with trial and error. Some folks seem to really hate this saying the game is under documented. I think that complaint is a genre mistake. That would be like playing most rogue-likes with a wiki open so you know all the potions, monsters, items, crafting, etc from the start. And I guess if you want you can read around and get the same effect, but that’s cheating yourself.
The boss and mini-boss fights are intense. I sort of have that feeling I do in Souls games as I step into the epic encounter wondering if I can break their pattern before they breaks me and end my run.
For folks that want some general tips:
–Spells recharge generally fast, don’t save them, use them
–Spells combine in neat ways, experiment
–Don’t use your three hitter for “damage” unless desperate for the push back
–Even a failed run is helpful as you unlock new items to be seeded on future runs
–Take the longest map route possible most of the time
–Always pause at the start of a battle, plan your first moves
–Pause at all other times too
–Almost never hit an enemy for more hits than it has stamina; very bad
–HBH is a rogue-like, not a rogue-lite. Brute force (grinding) won’t help.
–The game gets harder after each boss (pirate), it’s not a bad thing to learn in the early runs (you do get a ton of unlocks/item seeds though when you beat one)
I agree with the awesome rating for the game. Except for the seething hate that I have when I die. This is quickly followed by restarting though. :)
Ah, so you’re referring to only the last boss during a game as a boss and all other as mini-bosses. I was referring to all of them as a boss, since that’s what the Crossroad says. Using your terminology (which does eliminate confusion), I’ve finished the game once (defeated mini-boss and boss). I’m on my second game in which I’ve defeated the first mini-boss, but still have the second mini-boss and boss to encounter.
Great tips for those new to the game. I do have some input on some of them, though:[quote]
Don’t use your three hitter for “damage” unless desperate for the push back
[/quote]
I always use him (the Rogue) for damage while an enemy is stunned, if his melee will be ready before the Warrior’s.
[quote]Almost never hit an enemy for more hits than it has stamina; very bad
[/quote]
Granted, attacks that do more hits than an enemy has stamina are less efficient (will hit for 25% less damage after the earlier hits remove the stamina; hits that remove stamina are blocked, for those new to the game). But as long as damage is done, the enemy will be knocked back, which buys you time.
I’ll also add:
- Your heroes can be affected by elemental spells they cast on enemies. Cast wisely! (Hot Potato, anyone?)
- Stuns (i.e., matching your hero’s hits to the enemy’s remaining stamina) and knockbacks buy you time!
- Before deciding which heroes to swap where after stunning an enemy, take note of any enemies that may overtake the stunned enemy before the stun wears off and your hero’s ready to attack. You don’t want to put your Warrior in a lane whose lead enemy used to be stunned, but is now a 2+ stamina enemy!
- Items and spells can’t be transferred between heroes (mainly a concern for items). Make sure you have the hero you want to equip the item/spell in the lane opposite the item/spell before clicking on it
Join the fun, folks!
I always use him (the Rogue) for damage while an enemy is stunned, if his melee will be ready before the Warrior’s.
[quote]Almost never hit an enemy for more hits than it has stamina; very bad
[/quote]
Granted, attacks that do more hits than an enemy has stamina are less efficient (will hit for 25% less damage after the earlier hits remove the stamina; hits that remove stamina are blocked, for those new to the game). But as long as damage is done, the enemy will be knocked back, which buys you time.
I’ll also add:
- Your heroes can be affected by elemental spells they cast on enemies. Cast wisely! (Hot Potato, anyone?)
- Stuns (i.e., matching your hero’s hits to the enemy’s remaining stamina) and knockbacks buy you time!
- Before deciding which heroes to swap where after stunning an enemy, take note of any enemies that may overtake the stunned enemy before the stun wears off and your hero’s ready to attack. You don’t want to put your Warrior in a lane whose lead enemy used to be stunned, but is now a 2+ stamina enemy!
- Items and spells can’t be transferred between heroes (mainly a concern for items). Make sure you have the hero you want to equip the item/spell in the lane opposite the item/spell before clicking on it
Join the fun, folks!
[/quote]
Okay I will. Thanks for getting me on this train. I suck pretty bad and after several attempts have only beaten the first map’s mini boss once, but ai think I’m better getting the swing of things now.
I think the mini-boss versus boss designation was what I picked up from a dev stream. The final pirate guy of any given run (if you get to the end) is what they were calling bosses. Heads up, even those vary. ;). I did manage two beat the second one last night and have a new character unlocked. I almost got a third as I was having a great run, but a major timing oops on the third a mini-boss cost me my run.
Oops, yes, I meant to say “two hitter”. The three hitter is not bad for damage especially if you get critical change and damage buff items on her. The two hitter is very bad at damage though.
On push back, I still defend that you should only hit past stamina in a pinch. Yes they get pushed back, but only a little bit rather than all the way down the lane (and for a current 25% damage penalty on the hit too). If you tie stamina first, then you get a stun (which you can leave a bit to gain even more time), lower enemy max stamina, get full damage, and save refresh timers on attacks.
Oh, Switch interface tip! If you click the left stick, then you can browse equipped inventory. In the game’s defense there was a tool tip for that that I ignored for the longest time as I thought it was prompting me to move the stick to see spells rather than click it down. Oops.
My new most hated enemy are the hasting mages. Ugh! I hate those guys!
I’m really digging the music too. The fairy forest or whatever song really has an epic cadence in parts that totally works for the fear and pacing of the battles. It reminds me of the tempo switch-up in Total Annhilation.
Does this mean you can view the tooltips for equipped items? If so, then I might just play this over Steam Link, since that was the only issue (I think) I had when playing with a controller.
Just an FYI, but from what o have seen, some of the later 2-hit characters can deal some damage, but the monk’s damage is awful as you said.
Glad to be of help. It’s a solid game. And FWIW, a lot of folks seem to struggle only to hit a magic “ah ha” moment 5 or more hours in. Once you get there the game seems to really appeal. Or not for those that didn’t make it.
Yeah, I figured it is just a mouse over for a PC user. Using a gamepad was a bit more obtuse. However, yes, I can look at all items and their descriptions that I have equipped (plus to melee refresh or whatever). I can also go to the main menu while in game to look at anything not equipped as well by using the plus button on Switch. Keep in mind unlocked items don’t have any information until you have found and equipped it during a run. Once something has been encountered the tool tip shows up in menues and at shops before buying.
v1.0.2 is currently available on the beta branch:
- Gameplay: Hitting over enemy Stamina now has a damage penalty of -10% instead of -25%
- Gameplay: Skeleton Leader, who speeds up nearby enemies, now always walks into the battle, never spawns in the middle
- Gameplay: Bandana “Boxer” Skeleton Boss health now 1450 (was 1825)
- Gameplay: Heroes’ lane backstab damage increase
- Gameplay: Battle clear bonus now 20 (was 25)
- Gameplay: Changes and fixes to Summon Boar spell
- User interface: Press left thumbstick to cycle main menu tips
- User interface: Helpful popup screen at the start of the game to explain Stamina
- PC: Fix SLI rendering issues
- Miscellaneous fixes
- Prologue dialogue fixes
- Wrestler recharge exploit fix
The first four bullets make the game easier (boooo), while the fifth one makes it harder (huzzah!). So I’ll consider it a wash. :-)
I took the fourth point to mean damage while moving backwards after a lane switch. Is it something else?
Yes, “backstab” is when a hero’s attack puts them far enough down a lane that when they are swapped to another lane (they keep the distance position) the new lane position has them past other enemies. When the hero resets to the left home position, any enemies moved through take “backstab” damage. This is a great way squeeze extra damage out of every move. It is also a driving force of the dangerous dilemma of playing chicken by over hitting one lane and letting another advance. Folks often ignore this and just line up the 1/2/3 hits on the front of lanes. These same folks sometimes say the game plays itself and has no meaningful choice.
Like regular hero attacks, not all damage is created equal for backstab though. ;)
As to the patch, I’m fully on board with the haste change. It’s needed. Same with bandana guys. I’m not sure moving the 25% to 10% change is good as it works against a core mechanic and fuels tough choices. With a low penalty you might as well have the rogue on damage duty to all 1 stamina monsters and have the other two work on everything else.
Remember, even though it is a rogue-like the game gets harder with each boss cleared (and sort of easier with new toys). It’s sort of a built in new game+ thing. With two bosses down, it’s getting a bit crazy and if you run into bad combos (hasted, shielded, zombies or bandanas) it’s usually game over. I had one setup last night that had my heroes taking hits (monsters crossing the screen) before I even got 2 attack cycles in. Ouch.
According to devs earlier, the patch will go live right away for PC. A bit later for other consoles, and Nintendo will be behind (meh). Hopefully this changes over time, but they cited the usual “quality control” and update freedom for PC versus the rest.
I was just confused when he said the next two points (4&5) made the game harder.
Whoops! Corrected.
Maybe Mysterio meant gold clear and boar change? I’ve not had the boar spell. I’m not sure on clear bonus. It is nice as gold is so sparse that tough decisions are everywhere about what to buy (or throw money at to functionally identify). Lowering it could be rough, but there’s more than a few battles that I can’t clear in time so that’s gold left on the table too. I’ve started ignoring the gambler tent though.
“Yip yip!”
“F you, lady! I call shenanigans.”
Is there any way to make sure a particular party member gets a spell or inventory item after it’s been revealed? Seems I’m always selecting a party member and then finding out what he just revealed/bought, at which point he’s stuck with it, regardless of whether it would be more useful for someone else.
-Tom
I know I’ve seen streamers examine the item before picking it up. Not sure if you can do that the first time you see a particular item or not.