Come to think of it, I really enjoyed Patton. That was probably my favorite war movie before entering the service. I dreamed of M1 tanks and large armor battles, but then I learned that tanks were just big slow targets in 1987, hehe. Patton ( the movie) wasn’t very realistic, but it was an interesting study in command and the pitfalls of the “aggression” so discussed in Generation Kill.
“Hey, watch out for the one on the right! He’s got a horse cock!”
The VO informal interview with some of the characters during the end credits was simply put, fucking awesome.
Thanks, I appreciate that. I went through quite a lot of the Vietnam literature when I was younger but never came across The Best…, will have to have a look at it and the others.
Funnily enough, I didn’t much care for Generation Kill (the book) until a good few chapters in. I didn’t much care for Wright’s style of reporting, especially in comparison to Herr or Bowden. However, he seemed to almost improve as he was writing and I ended up thinking it does stand up in comparison with the others.
I thought he fucked himself by saying that he hadn’t been to sleep for 36 hours, so either he was asleep and the gunny woke him up, or he’s disobeying orders by not getting sleep?
Because by his speech pattern and body language, that “I haven’t slept in 36 hours” was the point where he made a mistake.
Yeah, Fick deffinately has no problem dressing down Casey Kasem in front of the men - he does so letter in the conversation when says “I put it down…are you going to pick it up Gunny?”
The way I saw the scene was that he was being truthful - Casey Kasem had requested approval for the order, and he thought he’d had a dream about it instead of it being real. Dean’s intrepretation would also work, but they haven’t done any foreshadowing of orders to get sleep, so I don’t think it’s correct.
The situation is tragic, but after the third time I saw a gung-ho marine bitch about missing out on the war it became pretty funny in a “careful what you wish for” kind of way.
I too was confused by that whole scene. My take was that Fick was reluctantly going along with the “I woke you up, remember?” falsehood because it was slightly better than the alternative but it still pissed him off. (Much like the earlier episode where his men attempted to stand behind him on his clash with Encino Man and he told them to shut the fuck up.) I didn’t have all the facts straight on what the tank confrontation was about, but I’m pretty sure he wasn’t remembering that Kasem’s claim of trying to wake him was actually true. I think Fick had to choose the lesser of two evils there.
It stuck out when I read it, because I can relate to a discussion of the politics of sleep deprived leadership, whether it’s your own or that of your superiors.
According to Fick’s version he was still mostly asleep when the division operations chief (some major, possibly “Benelli”) and “a senior enlisted man from outside the platoon” pulled their stunt. He says he recalled the meeting as if it occurred in a dream.
So it came from a lot higher than Kasem, and there was really no ass to cover when the mission proved as ridiculous as it seemed initially to the men who would actually have to do it. This is what happens when staff officers and enlisted get too close to the business end of things.
Now I feel like I watched that scene in a dream.
Lizard King, was it you that referenced a “second bayonett incident” earlier in the thread? Was that in reference to the “stabbing” incident (which pierced a magazine and not a chest), or the Captain America “Intimidation tactics!” incident?
I’d have really wanted to punch the guy who said “I’m sorry I shook your hand. You abused that prisoner” in the face about 15 times.
Yeah, the guy was from Delta, the reservist company.
Note: From the book, they mention that East and West Coast Marines use different encrypted radios and can’t communicate with each other.
Uh yeah. Pretending to stab a prisoner of war is totally SOP.
Those of your who have read the books, especially Fick’s: Does Captain America come across as insane as he’s presented in the series? He does appear to be a bit carricatured.
I think the issue is more that the douche blamed everyone for the actions of one nutcase. Which was pretty stupid.
sure, without the Bawmore accent, without the little boy attitude, without the slumped shoulders, without the fear and defence to authority and strength, without the overconfidence and racism… I guess their similar.
You’re trippin, Ransome is a fine actor and Person is very, very different from Ziggy. People should know that both Ziggy and Ray Person were based on two different characters (there was indeed a Batimore dockworker who would unzip his fly in bars, bring iced-out ducks to drink, wear ridiculous coats etc.).
Sad the show is ending.
Its only a “tragedy” if you think America deserved to win, and that the war in Iraq was/is a noble cause (ie its a good thing if they are sucessful, and a bad thing if they aren’t). Since this isn’t P&R I won’t persue the point, but for now understand that many people don’t want the US to win the war in the 1st place, and “tragedy” would be entirely the wrong word to desribe their reaction to the ridiculous celebratory mentality of the military just before the fall of Bahgdad (Mission Accomplished).
Fick’s actor really is a fantastic bit of casting. From reading the book it seems that they absolutely nailed it. He is described as having - and I quote - “the pleasant, clear eyed looks of a former altar boy, which he is.” Yeah, exactly.
I, on the other hand, haven’t seen the series, but in the book he definitely comes across as a headcase. Fairly early on he gets a captured AK and delights in firing it out the window. The book makes it seem like he’s not even really firing at anyone/anything!
The stabbing incident is pretty insane in the book too - he just runs up to a subdued prisoner and starts jabbing away.
And yet, it does seem to come off worse in the movie. I suppose that in reading the book I assumed that this guy, for all his many flaws, was a Recon Marine officer whereas in the show he is not given that benefit of a doubt so that he does seem to be a bit of a carricature. Neither portrayal is flattering and I’m sure he’s a rediculous person but the TV version seems a bit too cartoony for my tastes.
I had a long reply written out to this, but since this thread is going so well and I really appreciate the input of some of the folks here, I’m just going to delete it and instead write: Dude, please.
Plus your spelling sucks.
-Tom
The only one I’ve mentioned (I think) is the incident where they attack the airfield and Captain A is running around like a madman brandishing a bayonet attached to his rifle.
I don’t remember G-K the book all that well, but in Fick’s book, he’s not mentioned, ever, in any situation or context that I can recall. Not even in passing. What that says is open to debate.
Something I loved about your post is how the tone conveys a belief that your point of view is really going to knock Tom on his ass, like he’s going to hear it from you for the first time ever on the internet and be dumbstruck. The second best part is your careful use of italics, forward slashed alternative verbs, and air quotes in order to accompany a post that is so obviously nonsensical and trite it would be an embarrassment to the standards of youtube comments. But my favorite bit of all is how it took you at least one edit to dish out this masterpiece. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, right?
I never knew any altar boys that match that description.
/me is a former altar boy